Watermaker -- Where Would You Put It?

[Tellie]

10 identical boats, 10 identical watermakers, 10 different installs. Good suggestions above. "NEVER" share an engine intake thru hull with anything, especially a watermaker. Sharing a thru hull with a salt water head or perhaps a salt water wash down can be acceptable but usually you want a thru hull as deep in the hull as possible to avoid air cavitation which will tear a plunger pump up or over heat the ceramic plungers and when a burst of cold water hits them it's not unusual for them to crack. Only a few Spectra systems can take excessive amount of air without any damage. Mounting a membrane in an engine room many times is perfectly acceptable if there is room. Cats usually have plenty of room where monos usually have very little room and the membrane ends up within a few inches of the engine which could then cause some issues. The Catalina 300 shown above should seriously be properly mounted. You can also move the 5Micron pre-filter shown to a different location to take some of the strain off of the feed pump module, it's just some extra hose. Yes, a watermaker needs to be fresh water flushed after each use and at the minimum once a week if it is not being used. No need to pickle it after only one week of non use if you have a fresh water flushing system. Most all decent watermakers come with a fresh water flush system, some fully automated some manual. I would run from a watermaker company that either did not offer as a standard feature a fresh water flush system or said it wasn't needed. Yeah, they're out there. I know the urge to go cheap is awfully tempting, but remember, that cheap water maker is going to be the most expensive watermaker you'll ever buy if you end up replacing it with the unit you should have bought in the first place. Again as I always say here, "ASK" the people that do this for a living, we really are here to help.

J.T. Halden (aka Tellie)
HaldenMarineService@yahoo.com
(954) 515-7077
Spectra watermakers
Blue Water watermakers
Rainman watermakers.

[Aguabago]

+1 on setup for easy access to the pre-filter. You should clean or change this filter often.

[Pete7]

Having been on board your yacht I would look at the second forward heads compartment and mount it on a wall in full view so you can easily see what is going on at all times. If it leaks in the heads compartment its not the end of the world and there ought to be either the heads or shower hoses which you can connect the supply and discharge hoses into.

Running the mains electric cables 20ft for the CAT pump from the genny shouldn't be a problem and the water tank is about 15ft so that should be easy enough too.

How about taking your yacht to the manufacturers and inviting them on board for a final check over whilst buying.


Pete

[Pete7]

Since you are going to Greenland and presumably landing you could investigate buying the WM as an export item essential for the trip and saving 20% VAT.

Not quite sure what happens when you come back, but by then its a used WM and will anyone in the UK care? probably not.

Pete

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Having been on board your yacht I would look at the second forward heads compartment and mount it on a wall in full view so you can easily see what is going on at all times. If it leaks in the heads compartment its not the end of the world and there ought to be either the heads or shower hoses which you can connect the supply and discharge hoses into.

Running the mains electric cables 20ft for the CAT pump from the genny shouldn't be a problem and the water tank is about 15ft so that should be easy enough too.

How about taking your yacht to the manufacturers and inviting them on board for a final check over whilst buying.


Pete

That's an original idea! Thanks for that. I've sometimes wondered whether I could do something useful with the wasted space in the forward heads.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Since you are going to Greenland and presumably landing you could investigate buying the WM as an export item essential for the trip and saving 20% VAT.

Not quite sure what happens when you come back, but by then its a used WM and will anyone in the UK care? probably not.

Pete

400 quid would be nice to save. I have no idea what the procedure is, though. Since I am not an EU citizen, I guess it would be some kind of tax free sale . . . . hmmm

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Tellie

10 identical boats, 10 identical watermakers, 10 different installs. Good suggestions above. "NEVER" share an engine intake thru hull with anything, especially a watermaker. Sharing a thru hull with a salt water head or perhaps a salt water wash down can be acceptable but usually you want a thru hull as deep in the hull as possible to avoid air cavitation which will tear a plunger pump up or over heat the ceramic plungers and when a burst of cold water hits them it's not unusual for them to crack. Only a few Spectra systems can take excessive amount of air without any damage. Mounting a membrane in an engine room many times is perfectly acceptable if there is room. Cats usually have plenty of room where monos usually have very little room and the membrane ends up within a few inches of the engine which could then cause some issues. The Catalina 300 shown above should seriously be properly mounted. You can also move the 5Micron pre-filter shown to a different location to take some of the strain off of the feed pump module, it's just some extra hose. Yes, a watermaker needs to be fresh water flushed after each use and at the minimum once a week if it is not being used. No need to pickle it after only one week of non use if you have a fresh water flushing system. Most all decent watermakers come with a fresh water flush system, some fully automated some manual. I would run from a watermaker company that either did not offer as a standard feature a fresh water flush system or said it wasn't needed. Yeah, they're out there. I know the urge to go cheap is awfully tempting, but remember, that cheap water maker is going to be the most expensive watermaker you'll ever buy if you end up replacing it with the unit you should have bought in the first place. Again as I always say here, "ASK" the people that do this for a living, we really are here to help.

J.T. Halden (aka Tellie)
HaldenMarineService@yahoo.com
(954) 515-7077
Spectra watermakers
Blue Water watermakers
Rainman watermakers.

Thanks for this. I would be curious to know your opinion about this watermaker: Home

It's a simple, basic, manual watermaker which appears to be made from quality but generic components.

They do offer an automatic fresh water flush as an option at a reasonable cost, but I would prefer to keep it simple and do it manually unless there is some overwhelming reason to do it otherwise.

It does not seem to be possible to mount the controls remotely, but I have written to the maker.

[Tellie]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Thanks for this. I would be curious to know your opinion about this watermaker: Home

It's a simple, basic, manual watermaker which appears to be made from quality but generic components.

They do offer an automatic fresh water flush as an option at a reasonable cost, but I would prefer to keep it simple and do it manually unless there is some overwhelming reason to do it otherwise.

It does not seem to be possible to mount the controls remotely, but I have written to the maker.

I've never heard of this company before so I can't really comment on the company itself. I have, over the years, seen watermakers like this pop up, and where I only wish the best for them they rarely stay around long. I question the sustainability of a company that produces basically a $3,000 watermaker for the marine market. I may be wrong but the hp pump shown sure looks a lot like a standard brass General pump. If so this would be the first reason they are priced so low. A brass pump is a big problem. General pump themselves recommend their Stainless Steel pumps for desalinization systems. I would double check this first. If it is a brass pump, they either have no idea about desalinization or they are just going so cheap that they hope to draw in people that don't know because of their price. Thus my comment "I know the urge to go cheap is awfully tempting, but remember, that cheap water maker is going to be the most expensive watermaker you'll ever buy if you end up replacing it with the unit you should have bought in the first place." I'll be watching this thread to see what you find out. These may turn out to be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but my advice would be to tread carefully here with a skeptical mindset.

J.T. Halden (aka Tellie)
HaldenMarineService@yahoo.com
(954) 515-7077
Spectra watermakers
Blue Water watermakers
Rainman watermakers.

[poiu]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Thanks for this. I would be curious to know your opinion about this watermaker: Home

It's a simple, basic, manual watermaker which appears to be made from quality but generic components.

They do offer an automatic fresh water flush as an option at a reasonable cost, but I would prefer to keep it simple and do it manually unless there is some overwhelming reason to do it otherwise.

It does not seem to be possible to mount the controls remotely, but I have written to the maker.

I'm not sure you need to flush at all. I don't fresh water flush my watermaker, a Cathelco (Seafresh) unit. In fact there is no facility provided to do it. They will provide it for an extra cost though. So long as you use it again before the recommended time has expired (10 to 14 days) then it is not needed according to the manual. I will not stop longer than 4 days between use anyway unless I will be leaving the boat, so I will pickle then.

I'm attracted by the idea of two very small energy saving units for redundancy like the Spectra. I suppose 1 would do if you have a good plan in the case of failure. You know it will fail. There are others, Schenker and ? The nice thing in theory is you can bury them somewhere you can't hear them (My high pressure pump is very noisy), run them on a timer. You use a fraction of the power, reducing generator demand and overall demand. Particularly peak demand will be reduced a lot.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Tellie

I've never heard of this company before so I can't really comment on the company itself. I have, over the years, seen watermakers like this pop up, and where I only wish the best for them they rarely stay around long. I question the sustainability of a company that produces basically a $3,000 watermaker for the marine market. I may be wrong but the hp pump shown sure looks a lot like a standard brass General pump. If so this would be the first reason they are priced so low. A brass pump is a big problem. General pump themselves recommend their Stainless Steel pumps for desalinization systems. I would double check this first. If it is a brass pump, they either have no idea about desalinization or they are just going so cheap that they hope to draw in people that don't know because of their price. Thus my comment "I know the urge to go cheap is awfully tempting, but remember, that cheap water maker is going to be the most expensive watermaker you'll ever buy if you end up replacing it with the unit you should have bought in the first place." I'll be watching this thread to see what you find out. These may turn out to be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but my advice would be to tread carefully here with a skeptical mindset.

J.T. Halden (aka Tellie)
HaldenMarineService@yahoo.com
(954) 515-7077
Spectra watermakers
Blue Water watermakers
Rainman watermakers.

OK, thanks for this.

I'll ask them what type of a pump it is. On the website, it says that it is ceramic, but doesn't state the make. Could you share what the good and what the less good makes and types of watermaker pumps are?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by poiu

I'm not sure you need to flush at all. I don't fresh water flush my watermaker, a Cathelco (Seafresh) unit. In fact there is no facility provided to do it. They will provide it for an extra cost though. So long as you use it again before the recommended time has expired (10 to 14 days) then it is not needed according to the manual. I will not stop longer than 4 days between use anyway unless I will be leaving the boat, so I will pickle then.

I'm attracted by the idea of two very small energy saving units for redundancy like the Spectra. I suppose 1 would do if you have a good plan in the case of failure. You know it will fail. There are others, Schenker and ? The nice thing in theory is you can bury them somewhere you can't hear them (My high pressure pump is very noisy), run them on a timer. You use a fraction of the power, reducing generator demand and overall demand. Particularly peak demand will be reduced a lot.

Thanks. That's an interesting other view on fresh water flushing. I guess I will need to read up on this.

I am not attracted to the Spectra ones because they are very expensive, and very complex. I would not buy efficiency or even quiet, at that expense. For my purposes, I want super simple and not expensive -- I might only ever use this watermaker a few times, as I'm planning to change the boat. For my usual Northern European cruising I don't need a watermaker at all as clean water is available everywhere and I have 1000 liters of tankage. This summer I'll be in some remote places but probably still never more than a few days from a water source. Longest passage will be about 1100 miles so about a week.

Back up plan in case of watermaker failure is emergency canisters, and keep the 1000 liters of tankage pretty full.

For something like your use, where you are making water continuously, I guess dual quiet ones is a good plan, albeit a £££££ one!

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

400 quid would be nice to save. I have no idea what the procedure is, though. Since I am not an EU citizen, I guess it would be some kind of tax free sale . . . . hmmm

I am a little out of date too, but the last time I used it to buy some diving cylinders I paid full price and the shop gave me a form to fill in. They new all about the export scheme and the printed form/leaflet gave the details etc. I think it was a generic customs form/leaflet for low value one off purchases.

I needed to get customs to stamp the form to show it had been exported (I did this Germany because I used the NATO Forces Act 1951) but I think you can get UK customs to stamp the form just before you leave UK waters. You then post it back to the dealer who uses it to support his VAT paperwork which will show a refund. Dealer then refunds you the £400.

Pete

[OrinocoFlo]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Thanks. That's an interesting other view on fresh water flushing. I guess I will need to read up on this.

I am not attracted to the Spectra ones because they are very expensive, and very complex. I would not buy efficiency or even quiet, at that expense. For my purposes, I want super simple and not expensive -- I might only ever use this watermaker a few times, as I'm planning to change the boat. For my usual Northern European cruising I don't need a watermaker at all as clean water is available everywhere and I have 1000 liters of tankage. This summer I'll be in some remote places but probably still never more than a few days from a water source. Longest passage will be about 1100 miles so about a week.

Back up plan in case of watermaker failure is emergency canisters, and keep the 1000 liters of tankage pretty full.

For something like your use, where you are making water continuously, I guess dual quiet ones is a good plan, albeit a £££££ one!

Our Spectra water makers are two of the most important systems on our boat, why on Earth would you go cheap on this item when traveling to remote places such as Greenland? It seems to me that you'll be only one generator sensor away from having no water.

[Tellie]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Thanks. That's an interesting other view on fresh water flushing. I guess I will need to read up on this.

I am not attracted to the Spectra ones because they are very expensive, and very complex. I would not buy efficiency or even quiet, at that expense. For my purposes, I want super simple and not expensive -- I might only ever use this watermaker a few times, as I'm planning to change the boat. For my usual Northern European cruising I don't need a watermaker at all as clean water is available everywhere and I have 1000 liters of tankage. This summer I'll be in some remote places but probably still never more than a few days from a water source. Longest passage will be about 1100 miles so about a week.

Back up plan in case of watermaker failure is emergency canisters, and keep the 1000 liters of tankage pretty full.

For something like your use, where you are making water continuously, I guess dual quiet ones is a good plan, albeit a £££££ one!

I go through over a hundred membranes a year. So I'm gonna give you two pieces of hard won advice. Number one is important, number two is REALLY important. 1) Fresh water flush your system after each use and at least once a week when not in use. A simple fresh water flush system is easy to set up and usually the ones provided by the manufacturer are cheap enough. 2) I sell membranes.

J.T. (aka Tellie
HaldenMarineService@yahoo.com
(954) 515-7077
Spectra watermakers
BlueWater watermakers
RainMan watermakers

[Tellie]

Originally Posted by OrinocoFlo

Our Spectra water makers are two of the most important systems on our boat, why on Earth would you go cheap on this item when traveling to remote places such as Greenland? It seems to me that you'll be only one generator sensor away from having no water.

Yeppers!