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Old 03-10-2010, 17:16   #16
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Hey Foggy, how's your search for membrane vessels going? Do you have to have a new one?
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Old 03-10-2010, 20:45   #17
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I found SW30-2540 Filmtec stuff for $189.88 each but didn't purchase a pair yet. I am concentrating on getting two more items before I chase membranes. Those parts include the much discussed back pressure regulator along with a pair of 2.5X40 fiberglass pressure vessels.

I have had weird ideas of forming some type of tube that will accommodate the membrane after a little machining and then wrap the entire thing in fiberglass. Of course, I was just daydreaming. I can bend I guess on the regulator in the $400 range if I cannot find a suitable device that satisfy my need. but I darn sure don't want to pay 400 big ones each for those vessels. GRrrrrr!!!

The regulator can have a poor (low) Cv rating.......flow coefficient, because the pump will turn at a constant RPM. So I don't or at least shouldn't care if the pressure drop varies much as as a function of flow. On that topic, the @#$% overpriced CAT does not show the pressure curves nor state what the flow coefficient is at a particular pressure. I know, they know, you know? AHhhh to be a teenager.

Now if I intended to power the pump from a variable source such as a combustion engine, then a high Cv would be required to ensure the membrane pressure was constant or nearly so as the RPMs changed.

Foggy
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Old 04-10-2010, 06:14   #18
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Yes thats a point worth mentioning , it you are running at a constant speed, a simple needle valve will provide pressure "regulation" for about $50.

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Old 04-10-2010, 06:46   #19
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Originally Posted by foggysail View Post
My Brother worked with a mechanical engineer in Florida who built his own 55' aluminum sailboat. He did all the fabrication and assembly including welding. Every few years I checked his progress. After 20 or more years of construction, using every available hour including weekends and vacations he had to launch it before the rigging and inside finish were completed. The lot where he did his construction was sold, he was evicted.
Some people's ideal for boating is not the actual saailing, but rather the build and preperation of the boat. Thus the finish date is less important than the quality of work. Products from such a person can be of very high quality, but with design elements that are not optimal for liffe afloat.
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Old 04-10-2010, 08:20   #20
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Originally Posted by foggysail View Post
I found SW30-2540 Filmtec stuff for $189.88 each but didn't purchase a pair yet. I am concentrating on getting two more items before I chase membranes. Those parts include the much discussed back pressure regulator along with a pair of 2.5X40 fiberglass pressure vessels.

I have had weird ideas of forming some type of tube that will accommodate the membrane after a little machining and then wrap the entire thing in fiberglass. Of course, I was just daydreaming. I can bend I guess on the regulator in the $400 range if I cannot find a suitable device that satisfy my need. but I darn sure don't want to pay 400 big ones each for those vessels. GRrrrrr!!!

The regulator can have a poor (low) Cv rating.......flow coefficient, because the pump will turn at a constant RPM. So I don't or at least shouldn't care if the pressure drop varies much as as a function of flow. On that topic, the @#$% overpriced CAT does not show the pressure curves nor state what the flow coefficient is at a particular pressure. I know, they know, you know? AHhhh to be a teenager.

Now if I intended to power the pump from a variable source such as a combustion engine, then a high Cv would be required to ensure the membrane pressure was constant or nearly so as the RPMs changed.

Foggy

I was asking because I'm sure I have a old membrane vessel in my pile of water maker parts, I might even have an old pressure regulator there as well. The thing is I don't know the area you are in so I'm not sure if it woulds be of any value to you. I'd also make the membrane purchases the last on the list. I'm sure you will be done in time but they do have a shelf life of about one year and you can never really know how old they already are when they are sent to you. Another thing to be careful of when you are doing the math on your pressure pump. Membranes operate on pressure and flow. Pressure is the easy part flow is the Goldilocks of water makers. Too little flow at pressure and the membranes foul faster, too high of a flow at pressure and you risk damage to the sensitive areas of the membranes surface (note the antitelescoping fitting at the end of membranes) . So you need to get pressure and flow just right for your application. Again as I have stated here and elsewhere for years. Just building or buying a water maker based on price many times can lead to very unhappy results. A big mistake here and people will soon value their lost leisure time quite quickly. There are plenty of questions about needs, wants and capabilities that need to be answered before deciding on size and type of water maker. There is NO one size fits all water maker anywhere.
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Old 04-10-2010, 08:49   #21
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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Yes thats a point worth mentioning , it you are running at a constant speed, a simple needle valve will provide pressure "regulation" for about $50.

Dave

Dave--- That is a very good suggestion!!! I didn't think of using a simple needle valve regulator, always had my mind set on a three port device.

My guess is the proper place in the circuit for such a simple regulator would be at or near the pressure vessels in a "T" arrangement with the main feed line. The T'ed section then should be the purge port to drain the line thereby control the line's pressure. Is this approach correct?

Your suggestion is a cost saver for me, one I intend to pursue. Now off on a needle valve regulator hunt!

Thanks--

Foggy
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Old 04-10-2010, 23:13   #22
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DIY Watermaker Parts list

Foggy:

I have a watermaker parts list that I have researched as follows.

My Do It Yourself Reverse Osmosis WaterMaker price list
Updated 30 July 2010

Item -----Model ------Number -----(Source)----- Price

Pump Cat 310S (Autowashonline) $535.00

1 HP Electric Motor TEFC 56C frame Resilient base (PressureParts) $250.00

Pressure Vessels 1000PSI 2.5 X 40 (Applied Membrane) $85ea $170.00

Membranes Filmtec SW30-2450 (Seimans) 165ea $330.00

Pressure Regulator VB130 Regulator 463660K (PressureParts) $ 36.00

Boost Pump FloJet 5GPM FLJ4125-114A (Fisheries) $ 111.00

TDS Meter Hanna BL983319-0 (Hanna Website) $119.70

Flow Meters Dwyer VisiFloat VFB-81&VFB-86 (Dwyer) 46.00ea $ 92.00

Pre-Filter housings Culligan 3@40 each (Sears) $120.00

Pre-Filter 10Micron 3 (Home Depot) 12ea $ 12.00

Pre-Filter 5Micron 3 (Home Depot) 14ea $ 14.00

Pre-Filter Charcoal 3 (Home Depot) 18ea $ 18.00


Total $1818.00

I hope this is helpful,

Jim
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Old 05-10-2010, 10:09   #23
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Jim,

Thats great info- Thank you!

2 questions for you (or others here)

1.Is the motor mounts directly onto the pump?
2. Would you know of a 12V motor/pump combo that will do the job? (I am trying to build a 12V system 6 to 8 GPH)

Thanks,

Mike
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Old 05-10-2010, 14:08   #24
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30 Gallon per hour watermaker

Mike:

This list is for a 110 volt motor directly connected to the pump, driven by my 2kw inverter with a battery bank of 880amp hours. 2 - 210 watt solar panels give me 22 amps per hour to rebuild the batteries.

Run this watermaker 1 hour every couple days and you'll have enough for showers every day. A clean crew is a happy crew.

I origanally considered 12 volt pumps but A 12 volt pump will not give you the same production and it would take out more from the batteries than you want to spend, just my take on it. This setup will take out about 20 amps to produce 30 gallons, whats wrong with that?

A 2kw inverter is worth the cost as it then gives you all sorts of other posibilities, microwave, hair driers, and much more as long as you have enough solar panels to recharge the batteries.

I hope this answers your concerns.

Jim
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Old 05-10-2010, 14:25   #25
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Foggy:

I have a watermaker parts list that I have researched as follows.

My Do It Yourself Reverse Osmosis WaterMaker price list
Updated 30 July 2010

Item -----Model ------Number -----(Source)----- Price

Pump Cat 310S (Autowashonline) $535.00

1 HP Electric Motor TEFC 56C frame Resilient base (PressureParts) $250.00

Pressure Vessels 1000PSI 2.5 X 40 (Applied Membrane) $85ea $170.00

Membranes Filmtec SW30-2450 (Seimans) 165ea $330.00

Pressure Regulator VB130 Regulator 463660K (PressureParts) $ 36.00

Boost Pump FloJet 5GPM FLJ4125-114A (Fisheries) $ 111.00

TDS Meter Hanna BL983319-0 (Hanna Website) $119.70

Flow Meters Dwyer VisiFloat VFB-81&VFB-86 (Dwyer) 46.00ea $ 92.00

Pre-Filter housings Culligan 3@40 each (Sears) $120.00

Pre-Filter 10Micron 3 (Home Depot) 12ea $ 12.00

Pre-Filter 5Micron 3 (Home Depot) 14ea $ 14.00

Pre-Filter Charcoal 3 (Home Depot) 18ea $ 18.00


Total $1818.00

I hope this is helpful,

Jim

Jim--

HAVE YOU ACTUALLY PURCHASED THIS MATERIAL!!! I just got off the phone with AppliedMembranes to price RV2540PR1000 vessels and NO WAY are they priced anywhere near your quote.

Foggy
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Old 05-10-2010, 14:31   #26
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Hey Foggy, how's your search for membrane vessels going? Do you have to have a new one?

Tellie--

How do we contact each other??? I see PMs here on the site but the messages I get are only from moderators..........spanking my fingers in their attempt to inhibit my typing sometimes needed responses to (I'll leave the rest out).

I want to discuss your pressure vessel and at least know something about what you have for a regulator.

Foggy
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Old 05-10-2010, 14:36   #27
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List for Watermaker parts

Foggy:

They had a clearance special so check online for their specials and look way down the list for that listing. There's a lot of stuff available on that list.

Jim
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Old 05-10-2010, 14:38   #28
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Thanks Boatrips (Jim)! Also clicked a "thanks" for you!

Foggy
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Old 05-10-2010, 15:07   #29
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Mike:

This list is for a 110 volt motor directly connected to the pump, driven by my 2kw inverter with a battery bank of 880amp hours. 2 - 210 watt solar panels give me 22 amps per hour to rebuild the batteries.

Run this watermaker 1 hour every couple days and you'll have enough for showers every day. A clean crew is a happy crew.

I origanally considered 12 volt pumps but A 12 volt pump will not give you the same production and it would take out more from the batteries than you want to spend, just my take on it. This setup will take out about 20 amps to produce 30 gallons, whats wrong with that?

A 2kw inverter is worth the cost as it then gives you all sorts of other posibilities, microwave, hair driers, and much more as long as you have enough solar panels to recharge the batteries.

I hope this answers your concerns.

Jim
Jim,

I guess you are right! I have 525W of solar and 1080 Amp/H batteries so should be fine.
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Old 05-10-2010, 16:02   #30
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Jim-- I again just got off the phone with Applied Membrane. The part currently listed in their surplus list, at least the part I found is PV2540PVCAU. The max pressure for this vessel is 300psi. Wish I could jump for joy knowing that it is rated at 1000, but not so.

Foggy
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