Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 21-10-2014, 04:02   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Lowestoft, UK
Boat: Scanmar 40
Posts: 59
Watermaker Intake

Hi all, I will be installing a watermaker in the next few weeks. Don't ask what make or type, that decision has not been finalised yet. What I would be interested in though is do I need separate seacock for the intake or can I tee off another inlet such as the engine seacock? I am reluctant to drill yet another hole in the bottom of the boat.
Thanks in advance
Andy
__________________

__________________
AndytheSailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2014, 04:29   #2
Moderator
 
carstenb's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Copenhagen
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Fast 40.3
Posts: 4,937
Images: 1
re: Watermaker Intake

Andy,

The general consensus is that you will need a separate intake. T-ing off the engine might mean you will starve the engine of cooling water if you are operating both engine and watermaker at the same time.

There are quite a few good discussion thread about watemaker installations here on CF - do a search and you'll get a lot of info.

Re. Choosing your watermaker - this is a good place to start your reading:

Which Watermaker To Choose

carsten
__________________

__________________
I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted - Elmore Leonard
carstenb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2014, 04:33   #3
Registered User
 
SimonV's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Posts: 1,316
re: Watermaker Intake

Do not use the engine sea cocktail as you may find you ate trying to make water while under motor. Safest is having its own as low and close to the Centre or the hull.

Sent from my GT-N7105T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
Simon

https://svgoodonya.blogspot.com.au/
SimonV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2014, 12:48   #4
Sponsoring Vendor
 
Tellie's Avatar

Community Sponsor

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hollywood, Fl.
Boat: FP Athena 38' Poerava
Posts: 3,046
Re: Watermaker Intake

What make or type of watermaker?

Just kidding, usually most manufacturers will want a dedicated thru hull for their watermaker. It is a good idea. Teeing off an engine intake is always a bad idea. Some of the smaller producing watermakers can share an intake from wash down thru hull or a head thru hull. But the lower in the hull the thru hull is the better. Many watermakers do not like air ingress common from higher placed thru hulls.
Tellie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2014, 12:51   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Lowestoft, UK
Boat: Scanmar 40
Posts: 59
Re: Watermaker Intake

Thanks everyone, I guess there will be another hole shortly.
__________________
AndytheSailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2014, 14:08   #6
Marine Service Provider
 
SV THIRD DAY's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: La Paz, Mexico
Boat: 1978 Hudson Force 50 Ketch
Posts: 3,653
Re: Watermaker Intake

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndytheSailor View Post
Hi all, I will be installing a watermaker in the next few weeks. Don't ask what make or type, that decision has not been finalised yet. What I would be interested in though is do I need separate seacock for the intake or can I tee off another inlet such as the engine seacock? I am reluctant to drill yet another hole in the bottom of the boat.
Thanks in advance
Andy
Sha-zam....someone I know made a Video about this question:



He's an ugly mug....but the info and scenery in the video is pretty good!
__________________
Rich Boren Goodbye Morro Bay...Hello La Paz, Mexico and the owner of:
Cruise RO Water High Output Water
Technautic CoolBlue Refrigeration
SV THIRD DAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2014, 15:32   #7
CF Adviser
Moderator Emeritus
 
Hud3's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Virginia
Boat: Island Packet 380, now sold
Posts: 8,929
Images: 49
Re: Watermaker Intake

Just be sure to put the watermaker intake on the opposite side of the keel from the head discharge!
__________________
Hud
Hud3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2014, 15:46   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Vessel in Transit
Boat: Coast 34
Posts: 168
Re: Watermaker Intake

Hi Andy. We teed our Pur 80e off of our sea water intake for salt water to the galley sink. The throuhhull is in the bilge and centered. We have a 3 way valve to close off the sink seawater when we run the watermaker. The discharge water goes to the sink. Runs great. Annie
__________________
Annie in WA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2014, 16:35   #9
Registered User
 
TacomaSailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Burnt Store Marina, SW Florida
Boat: Caliber 40
Posts: 1,148
Re: Watermaker Intake

We installed a Spectra 17 GPH watermaker in June 2000 and teed it off the discharge side of the Groco sea strainer connected to our Yanmar 4JH2E 50 HP diesel.

We used the water maker for several hours a day almost every day from August 2000 thru August 2004 and for many hundreds of days since then.

We always run the watermaker while motoring to take advantage of the diesel alternator output. In Mexico we ran the Spectra on bypass if the tank was full whenever we ran the diesel - just to flow a lot of water past the membrane as recommended by Spectra.

The Yanmar (2,840 hours) runs cool, even at 2700 RPM high speed cruise, with the watermaker running at 3.5 gallons of seawater per minute. The Spectra works exactly on spec while the diesel is operating.

I've never seen any indication that a watermaker intake Teed off the seawater line to the diesel heat exchanger is a problem on our boat with our diesel.
__________________
TacomaSailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2014, 22:18   #10
Sponsoring Vendor
 
Tellie's Avatar

Community Sponsor

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hollywood, Fl.
Boat: FP Athena 38' Poerava
Posts: 3,046
Re: Watermaker Intake

Again, I really disagree with an intake plumbed into an engine cooling line especially a Spectra. These systems are not designed to compete with an engines impeller pump. Early wear on feed pumps is common when plumbed incorrectly like this. We've seen this many times before and come to these recommendations after plenty of experience. There are good reasons an installation like this will void the warranty. I know, holes in boats, but thru hulls in boats have been around a long time and they are pretty simple and fairly inexpensive to install and maintain properly to give years of good service. I don't see the logic or sense in spending thousands on a watermaker then cheaping out on a thru hull.
Tellie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2014, 22:37   #11
Marine Service Provider
 
SV THIRD DAY's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: La Paz, Mexico
Boat: 1978 Hudson Force 50 Ketch
Posts: 3,653
Re: Watermaker Intake

Quote:
Originally Posted by TacomaSailor View Post
I've never seen any indication that a watermaker intake Teed off the seawater line to the diesel heat exchanger is a problem on our boat with our diesel.
The problem is that your first indication of a problem can be a failed boost pump that was overworked from having to compete for flow with another devise...been there....done that.

This is how these things go:
People will read the "it worked great for me comment" and then think it will work great for them also with a higher production (thus higher inlet flow water maker).

But folks...sharing a "T" fitting on a water maker with an engine or generator is insanity in my opinion (with all due respect to TacomaSailor of course). Remember what Tellie and I do for a living, we don't sell through hulls or haul-outs, we trouble shoot water maker installations all day long and listen to horror stories every day. 75% of my trouble shooting calls are installation related issues rather than equipment failure issues. I've had the burned out generator when the raw cooling water was lost to it because they T-ed one of our SM30 water makers into the cooling water. That was one sad cruiser in the South Pacific with a dead generator on their dream cruise let me tell you.

Look, Tellie has more water maker experience in his left toe than many have in their entire body and then throw me into the mix also as a water maker manufacturer we both say that using a "T" to from a device is a disaster waiting to happen for a water maker installation. (a Y valve from certain devices is ok...see the video above). We don't say this because we are smarter than anyone else or because we want to tow some company line as published in a manual. A) I write the manual and B) Tellie is as straight a shooter as they come. We say this from the sad experience of having to sell repair parts to our customers after their installation caused their water maker to fail while out in some remote location (which is always when **** happens). And remember...who will get the blame for a water maker breakdown even if it is an installation issue...ha ha ha ....hint...never the owner/installer...
__________________
Rich Boren Goodbye Morro Bay...Hello La Paz, Mexico and the owner of:
Cruise RO Water High Output Water
Technautic CoolBlue Refrigeration
SV THIRD DAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2014, 22:57   #12
Sponsoring Vendor
 
Tellie's Avatar

Community Sponsor

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hollywood, Fl.
Boat: FP Athena 38' Poerava
Posts: 3,046
Re: Watermaker Intake

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
The problem is that your first indication of a problem can be a failed boost pump that was overworked from having to compete for flow with another devise...been there....done that.

This is how these things go:
People will read the "it worked great for me comment" and then think it will work great for them also with a higher production (thus higher inlet flow water maker).

But folks...sharing a "T" fitting on a water maker with an engine or generator is insanity in my opinion (with all due respect to TacomaSailor of course). Remember what Tellie and I do for a living, we don't sell through hulls or haul-outs, we trouble shoot water maker installations all day long and listen to horror stories every day. 75% of my trouble shooting calls are installation related issues rather than equipment failure issues. I've had the burned out generator when the raw cooling water was lost to it because they T-ed one of our SM30 water makers into the cooling water. That was one sad cruiser in the South Pacific with a dead generator on their dream cruise let me tell you.

Look, Tellie has more water maker experience in his left toe than many have in their entire body and then throw me into the mix also as a water maker manufacturer we both say that using a "T" to from a device is a disaster waiting to happen for a water maker installation. (a Y valve from certain devices is ok...see the video above). We don't say this because we are smarter than anyone else or because we want to tow some company line as published in a manual. A) I write the manual and B) Tellie is as straight a shooter as they come. We say this from the sad experience of having to sell repair parts to our customers after their installation caused their water maker to fail while out in some remote location (which is always when **** happens). And remember...who will get the blame for a water maker breakdown even if it is an installation issue...ha ha ha ....hint...never the owner/installer...
Ditto

And to drive home one of Richs points I deal with all the time, and the biggest reason watermakers at times get a bad reputation for trouble. 75% of our service calls are bad installations.

Signed x Sargent Hulka and his big left toe

Tellie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2014, 23:45   #13
Registered User
 
TacomaSailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Burnt Store Marina, SW Florida
Boat: Caliber 40
Posts: 1,148
Re: Watermaker Intake

Guess I've been lucky for the last 14 years!

I have no doubts what the experts say is true and reflects their experience. Just to be clear, about 60% of the Spectra run hours are with no engine running and the solar panels making a lot of power. The feed pump intakes are way below the waterline and quite a bit below the Yanmar impeller.

My statement only reflects my experience on my boat and is not a recommendation to ignore the experts advice.

But then, everyone says membranes don't last and I still have the original membrane making 15 GPH / 275 PPM product at 14.4V in 70 degree seawater.
__________________
TacomaSailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-10-2014, 00:14   #14
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
Re: Watermaker Intake

Quote:
Originally Posted by TacomaSailor View Post
Guess I've been lucky for the last 14 years!

I have no doubts what the experts say is true and reflects their experience. Just to be clear, about 60% of the Spectra run hours are with no engine running and the solar panels making a lot of power. The feed pump intakes are way below the waterline and quite a bit below the Yanmar impeller.

My statement only reflects my experience on my boat and is not a recommendation to ignore the experts advice.

But then, everyone says membranes don't last and I still have the original membrane making 15 GPH / 275 PPM product at 14.4V in 70 degree seawater.
There are exceptions to every rule if the conditions are right. And since you run off of solar that's makes a 60 % difference in stress on the pump. And for all we know, you have an over sized thruhull. Most people only install thruhulls large enough to handle whatever they're attached to.

And I believe most manufactures will not warrantee there systems w/o a dedicated thruhull. Also it should have a screen cover facing forward so as not to create bubbles.
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-10-2014, 00:29   #15
Registered User
 
TacomaSailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Burnt Store Marina, SW Florida
Boat: Caliber 40
Posts: 1,148
Re: Watermaker Intake

You've got me thinking about Tee fittings and watermakers. I keep pretty detailed notes and records about maintenance on my boat and on other boats that I work on.

Apparently Spectra did not have the same degree of Tee concern in June 2000 because my Spectra 380c manual (revised 10/15/99) says "Sharing a thru-hull with another system is acceptable,..."

It does go on to say problems may result with flow restrictions and air bubbles but it does not require an independent thru-hull.

Another friend who installed a Spectra at the same time as I also used the engine raw water thru-hull and has never had a problem. His original membrane only lasted 12 years. They cruised from Seattle to Ft Lauderdale, and Seattle to Puerto Vallarta twice and on to Hawaii once. They always had at least three and frequently five people on board and used the water maker every day for 10 years.

In 2002 - 2004 I worked closely with the Spectra representative (factory trained) in the Sea of Cortez as we installed and repaired many Spectra systems. He never expressed any concern about the Tee off the diesel raw water strainer. I don't recall seeing any problems in the dozen or so boats I worked on with that arrangement.


Question:
a 2" thruhull can flow somewhere between 60 and 115 gpm (later estimate by Evans Stargazer) when two feet below the water surface. The 4JH2E Yanmar needs 16 GPM for cooling water (based on my factory rebuild manual) and the Spectra needs a little over 3 GPM of feedwater so why is the tee a problem if there is at least three times that amount of water available?

The Yanmar impeller pulls less than 1/3 of the available water to it and the two Spectra feed pumps are below the waterline so water will flow, by gravity, to those feed pump intakes. The water that is not pulled to the Yanmar impeller will naturally flow downhill from the Groco to the feedwater pumps 3' below it.

What am I missing here?

I am not disputing the recommendations of the experts but I am wondering when this absolute prohibition on a watermaker sharing a through-hull with another system became the official Spectra policy.
__________________

__________________
TacomaSailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
water, watermaker

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Watermaker Intake Position hummingway Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 9 04-08-2011 03:57
Strainers on Raw Water Intake Remedy Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 13 30-01-2010 20:45
6kw Generator Exhaust or Intake???? avazquez Engines and Propulsion Systems 9 28-11-2007 02:13
Yanmar 3GM30F Raw Water Intake Size Cadence10m Engines and Propulsion Systems 8 15-11-2005 00:31



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:51.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.