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Old 04-09-2016, 11:06   #16
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Re: Watermaker conserve and filter change

That's the kind of answer I was hoping I'd get. Thank you very much Tellie . You made my day.
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Old 04-09-2016, 14:00   #17
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Re: Watermaker conserve and filter change

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Originally Posted by hoppy View Post
My watermaker needs to have its filters changed and it needs to be conserved as it will be out of action for a while.

Is it better if I wait to change the filters when I recommission the WM or can/should I change them before I conserve it?

It will certainly be more convenient if I do it now.


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I always recommend putting in a NEW set of prefilters before picking. 90% of the "bad guy bugs" live in the prefilters, so by tossing the old one and putting in new ones you give the pickling process a much longer life and better chance of being successfull. Plus when you go to restart the system, then all you need to do is a normal start up and let the preservative flush out of the system and you are off and running.
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Old 04-09-2016, 14:08   #18
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Re: Watermaker conserve and filter change

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Originally Posted by Pizzazz View Post
Thus, my position is do not worry so much about maintaining the membrane.
So rather than the simple process of fresh water flushing and pickling, you want to toss in a new $200 membrane once a season or even more?

Ok, that is just internet chat room crazy talk!
You would be doing more damage to the water maker than just replacing the membrane and you would also be VOIDING the manufacturers warranty on your water maker.
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Old 05-09-2016, 00:47   #19
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Re: Watermaker conserve and filter change

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I always recommend putting in a NEW set of prefilters before picking. 90% of the "bad guy bugs" live in the prefilters, so by tossing the old one and putting in new ones you give the pickling process a much longer life and better chance of being successfull. Plus when you go to restart the system, then all you need to do is a normal start up and let the preservative flush out of the system and you are off and running.
Hmmmm

I've done this now because my boat will be loaded on a ship and sent to Aus. When it lands mid November, I will reactivate it and use the WM for a couple of weeks whilst delivering it to my home marina.

For the moment I'm unsure if I will then schedule a weekly visit to the boat to flush (15 minutes drive & walk, door to dock) or if I will pickle it again.

Assuming I decide to skip the weekly commitment and pickle after a couple of weeks, you are recommending I should change the pre filter (only one) again.
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Old 05-09-2016, 02:30   #20
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Re: Watermaker conserve and filter change

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Originally Posted by Tellie View Post
Just a fine point on this Kenomac. If you are using Proplyne Glycol I'd have no problem with this. But when using a powdered storage compound I'd recommend using a new filter. The reason is that most powdered storage solutions don't really mix well at first in the mixing bucket. If there is a new filter in place the heavier parts get trapped in the filter and slowly and properly dissolve there and then move on to the rest of the system. Without a filter the input side of your membrane acts as this filter and these undissolved particles accumulate there in higher concentrations. Many of these storage solutions are acidic and in higher concentrations at this point can actually damage the membrane. Again, it's a fine point and once in a blue moon pickling probably will make no difference, but for people who pickle their systems frequently it does have a tendency to shorten membrane life.


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Understood, will do. Thanks.
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Old 05-09-2016, 08:50   #21
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Re: Watermaker conserve and filter change

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Originally Posted by hoppy View Post
Assuming I decide to skip the weekly commitment and pickle after a couple of weeks, you are recommending I should change the pre filter (only one) again.
It's a judgement call if your prefilter is still pretty new. But one run from a dirty, (algae, bacteria, plankton) water source can load the prefilter as much as a month of running in crystal clear water, so the length of time a filter is in use is a hard way to measure how "dirty" they are. My rule of thumb is that if the filter "looks dirty" then I recommend changing it right before the pickling process and putting in a new $9 filter. It it was a proprietary $35 filter element, maybe I would give more pause but I think as Tellie mentioned in an earlier post, don't skim on the cheap prefilters and cause damage to a more expensive part of the water maker.
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Old 07-09-2016, 19:58   #22
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Re: Watermaker conserve and filter change

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Originally Posted by hoppy View Post
Hmmmm

I've done this now because my boat will be loaded on a ship and sent to Aus. When it lands mid November, I will reactivate it and use the WM for a couple of weeks whilst delivering it to my home marina.

For the moment I'm unsure if I will then schedule a weekly visit to the boat to flush (15 minutes drive & walk, door to dock) or if I will pickle it again.

Assuming I decide to skip the weekly commitment and pickle after a couple of weeks, you are recommending I should change the pre filter (only one) again.
You will have a Desalator desalination unit on board then Hoppy (probably a Duo 60). The procedure is very quick and easy.

Remove the pre-filter element (bin)
Pour the sachet of preservative powder in the cartridge supplied as part of the OEM kit
Put the cartridge where the prefilter element was
Open the back-flush valve (also back-off the regulator valve on the control panel so it can actually back-flush with your on-board pressure system)
Let run until nearly all of the powder has dissolved (less than a minute), then close off.

That's it. Come re-commissioning time, continue the backflushing for several minutes, to work out the preservative, then replace the pickling cartridge with a new pre-filter element, and you are ready to run (you will still want to run for several hours before letting the product water into your tanks).

Tip - the preservative powder supplied as part of the OEM kit is sodium metabisulphite. You can get a 1kg bag of it from some home brew supplies shops in Australia, then weigh up single dose lots, and for about $4, you will have enough for the next 6 years of so.

Note also, that if you have chlorinated water in your tanks, this can cause damage to your membrane (Telly will be able to advise further on that - some membranes are more sensitive to chlorine than others), and as the Desalator Duo 60 does not have a carbon filter, you need to be aware of that

Hope that helps, and hope the shipping back here works out well - would be interested to hear the charges if you want to PM me.

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Old 07-09-2016, 20:46   #23
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Re: Watermaker conserve and filter change

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as the Desalator Duo 60 does not have a carbon filter, you need to be aware of that
That's insanity to not have an Activated Carbon filter as a standard part of a water maker. A $9 AC filter can save you on a $200 membrane replacement..seems like a no brainier to me to add one to your fresh water flushing circuit.
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Old 07-09-2016, 22:16   #24
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Re: Watermaker conserve and filter change

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That's insanity to not have an Activated Carbon filter as a standard part of a water maker. A $9 AC filter can save you on a $200 membrane replacement..seems like a no brainier to me to add one to your fresh water flushing circuit.
Yes, I was thinking that too as I wrote. Desalator have been in business for over 30 years, have service agents in more than 30 countries around the world, have patents on some of their developments and have been awarded for their innovation, but ............

All fine when you are flushing with straight freshwater that you have made onboard, but if you are using water in your tanks that has come from shore, then that's a different story (we filter our shore water, but not with carbon, so as to maintain the properties of chlorinated/chloraminated water.

The quick and easy way to add carbon is to use a combination cartridge in the single filter housing that comes as part of a Desalator installation - there is not always room for a second full size filter housing.
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Old 15-09-2016, 08:47   #25
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Re: Watermaker conserve and filter change

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Originally Posted by Tellie View Post
Secondly, watermaker membranes, if taken care of properly, can easily last 5-8 years.
my 2.5x40" filmtec are at 10 years, though I use them 6 months per year and the other 6 they are pickled (PG-100). They are in parallel, i say that because they should age equally as opposed to when plumbed in series. I flush with product after every batch. I have no intention of replacing them, just the thought of having to take off the pressure vessel end caps and re-tightening high pressure fittings again, gives me a headache.
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Old 05-11-2016, 01:51   #26
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Re: Watermaker conserve and filter change

Hope this isn't too much topic drift....

I have a semi-automatic rinse device attached to our watermaker that I use every time I plan on going more than 2 or 3 days between making water. I am not 100% certain how it works (if someone can enlighten me, that would be great!) but my guess is it runs on a timer (which I engage after making water), and pumps fresh water from our water tanks through the watermaker so that no seawater is left in the filters or membranes.

My question is, during extended marina/dock-side stays (say 2 or 3 weeks), is running that rinse cycle every few days the same as running the watermaker? It would avoid picking, or running questionable marina/harbor water through the watermaker....
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Old 05-11-2016, 02:22   #27
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Re: Watermaker conserve and filter change

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Originally Posted by CookiesnTequila View Post
Hope this isn't too much topic drift....

I have a semi-automatic rinse device attached to our watermaker that I use every time I plan on going more than 2 or 3 days between making water. I am not 100% certain how it works (if someone can enlighten me, that would be great!) but my guess is it runs on a timer (which I engage after making water), and pumps fresh water from our water tanks through the watermaker so that no seawater is left in the filters or membranes.

My question is, during extended marina/dock-side stays (say 2 or 3 weeks), is running that rinse cycle every few days the same as running the watermaker? It would avoid picking, or running questionable marina/harbor water through the watermaker....
Telling us what system and model you have would help. Basically this is your fresh water flush system. When it is activated it flushes the salt water from your watermaker with a few gallons of fresh water from your tanks after each use. If you are not using your watermaker to make water it is a good idea to re-flush it every 5-7 days to rid the watermaker of stale fresh water from the last flush. Even fresh water from your tanks can eventually start having growth and bio-fouling issues if left too long in the watermaker. In theory if you flush your watermaker every 5-7 days you can go indefinitely without actually using or pickling your watermaker. If you are going to leave your watermaker unused for an extended period of time, 2-3 months + , then I would suggest pickling the system is a good idea.


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Old 05-11-2016, 03:01   #28
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Re: Watermaker conserve and filter change

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Telling us what system and model you have would help. Basically this is your fresh water flush system. When it is activated it flushes the salt water from your watermaker with a few gallons of fresh water from your tanks after each use. If you are not using your watermaker to make water it is a good idea to re-flush it every 5-7 days to rid the watermaker of stale fresh water from the last flush. Even fresh water from your tanks can eventually start having growth and bio-fouling issues if left too long in the watermaker. In theory if you flush your watermaker every 5-7 days you can go indefinitely without actually using or pickling your watermaker. If you are going to leave your watermaker unused for an extended period of time, 2-3 months + , then I would suggest pickling the system is a good idea.


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It's an Aquabase YC2 120 L/Hr.

That is how I figured the flush worked - good to know for sure! And very good to know re: being able to use the fresh water flush in lieu of running the watermaker!

We live aboard, currently in the Med, so it is rare that we are away from the boat for long periods. If we are we pickle it. It's the times when we are in a harbour, with questionable water under us, for a few days longer than anticipated (bad weather - or just having fun!) that I will from now on just run the fresh water flush every 3 or 4 days.

Thanks
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Old 05-11-2016, 09:20   #29
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Re: Watermaker conserve and filter change

That's the advantage of an automatic fresh water flush, it makes proper maintenance on the water maker much easier. The No 1 early killer of RO membranes is too long of periods of inactivity without either proper pickling or fresh water flushing intervals.
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Old 05-11-2016, 18:40   #30
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Re: Watermaker conserve and filter change

OK I have a question about prefilters. Is there any reason to not just use any 5 micron filter and housing? My survivor is well past the warranty stage.
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