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Old 14-01-2015, 13:01   #91
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Re: Watermaker

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While I would never question a boat owners comfort level, so far the score is,

Unattended Watermakers = Many thousands

Boats sunk by unattended running watermakers = O

Our systems are left on all the time unattended. In fact we point to this benefit and ability to allow the boat owner more freedom from their boat because of it. These systems will auto flush themselves without the owner needing to be present. Also, if you set one of our systems to run for hours while you are away and in the unlikely event that it sprung a boat sinking leak the system would shut itself down within less than two minutes. I also, on many watermakers, install a dedicated stand alone on-demand fresh water pump that is activated by a relay only when the watermaker goes into a five minute auto flush. But hopefully and highly recommend is a bilge pump system that would easily handle any boat systems that could cause ingress of water, thru hulls, failed hose clamps, any below waterline plumbing, chiller pumps, below the waterline engine plumbing components, along with a leaking watermaker, etc.

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Hi Tellie
Yes, am probably overcautious but have been using large HO water makers (+8000gal per day) on large yachts for over 30 years and have seen a few messy salt water leaks in the ER, that while not a boat sinking event, spray from hairline cracks would have done peripheral damage to other equipment, if not caught in time.

Any great system when new and well maintained will offer secure service.... It always seems to be that after a few years of service and remedial work done on and around it,... that latent defects sometimes occur from rough handling ....and Murphy raises his ugly head.

Probably less on our own smaller yachts, but I do apply the KISS principal, whenever I can and as you say....
Each to their own !:beer:
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Old 14-01-2015, 16:55   #92
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Re: Watermaker

We are happy with our aqua base dc 65l/h unit. It draws 22amps and runs totally off solar. We run it every few days for a couple of hours and it keeps up with demand. It's quiet, you can just here the pump in the bilge enough to remember it's on.
For us the idea of living without running engines for anything or needing marinas for anything is the main reason behind a decent solar system, decent battery bank and efficient WM.
We don't have airconditioning or a washing machine, but we could run a washing machine if we wanted one. Our last Watermaker was a desolator d60 but it used almost twice the amps/l
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Old 14-01-2015, 17:42   #93
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Re: Watermaker

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We are happy with our aqua base dc 65l/h unit. It draws 22amps and runs totally off solar. We run it every few days for a couple of hours and it keeps up with demand. It's quiet, you can just here the pump in the bilge enough to remember it's on.
For us the idea of living without running engines for anything or needing marinas for anything is the main reason behind a decent solar system, decent battery bank and efficient WM.
We don't have airconditioning or a washing machine, but we could run a washing machine if we wanted one. Our last Watermaker was a desolator d60 but it used almost twice the amps/l
Monte, I'm guessing that you have a 24V system? That would make the watermaker draw 44amps on a 12V system.

The specs for that unit is 60L/h at 25A, so you are doing well with it.

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Old 14-01-2015, 18:44   #94
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Re: Watermaker

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Hi Tellie
Yes, am probably overcautious but have been using large HO water makers (+8000gal per day) on large yachts for over 30 years and have seen a few messy salt water leaks in the ER, that while not a boat sinking event, spray from hairline cracks would have done peripheral damage to other equipment, if not caught in time.

Any great system when new and well maintained will offer secure service.... It always seems to be that after a few years of service and remedial work done on and around it,... that latent defects sometimes occur from rough handling ....and Murphy raises his ugly head.

Probably less on our own smaller yachts, but I do apply the KISS principal, whenever I can and as you say....
Each to their own !:beer:
Over cautious is good because Murphy lives the good life. Which brings us to another good point, installations. I've seen, as exampled in this and other threads, people that spend copious amounts of time figuring out all angles of efficiency, costs, product to energy use etc., only to install these systems in the worst places possible. Watermakers have a lot of plumbing connections, many under obvious high pressures. It's amazing the engineers I run across that proudly do the energy mathematical calculations heralding them over my inferior head just to install the high pressure pump over their auto pilot electronics or battery charging systems. You are right, I like the KISS approach and many times it should rein supreme. But then sometimes the KISS approach is often more alluding than what it appears and the easily assumed obvious is not so obvious after all. It's not always so easy that any cave man can figure it out.

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Old 14-01-2015, 22:12   #95
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Re: Watermaker

Excellent point about installation..... (I once had a very famous Naval Architect/Engineering Firm propose that the 2 x 4000gpd modules be mounted above one of the Generators.

Needless to say, I had another firm finish the technical bid package!
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Old 15-01-2015, 05:14   #96
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Re: Watermaker

Mark. Our system is 12v. Yes it performs a bit above spec and gives us a full 65l/h as well. Good unit so far, good company support and simple push button on, off and flush. Our last unit wasn't so simple and required constantly adjusting the pressure gauge to keep it running. One of the reasons we went for aqua base is the similar to spectra specs and that we wanted it installed in Europe and spectra are hard to come by there and prices are a lot more than in the USA due to import and transport costs. At about $7500 installed it's about $2000 less than the similar size spectra.
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Old 15-01-2015, 06:07   #97
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Re: Watermaker

Monte, so this is an energy-recovery type of unit? I hadn't heard of this brand before.

That's great - our previous Village Marine made 20L/h using 17A.

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Old 15-01-2015, 08:32   #98
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Re: Watermaker

Yes Mark, similar to the spectra type. Aqua base is a division of SLSC who are into large scale desalination plants.
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Old 16-01-2015, 17:29   #99
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Re: Watermaker

There have been a few comments on how noisy the piston pumps are. I wonder, how noisy are they really? Is there a reason why diaphragm pumps are not used?
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Old 16-01-2015, 17:33   #100
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Re: Watermaker

Diaphragm pumps are low pressure, high volume, as a rule.
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Old 16-01-2015, 17:35   #101
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Re: Watermaker

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There have been a few comments on how noisy the piston pumps are. I wonder, how noisy are they really? Is there a reason why diaphragm pumps are not used?
Wanner
We have our piston pump mounted under the steps that lead to the lower salon on our Hudson Force 50. We can sit in the salon and watch a DVD without having to turn the volume up. No they are in NO way silent, but the general pump brand piston pump are also not annoyingly loud. The majority of the noise comes from the vibration transferred to your mounting platform. So some good noise damping rubber under the motor cuts a lot of the noise out. But if you mount the pump on a lose plywood board rattling around, well the drum affect will take over and chase you out of the boat.

There are some folks that use the diaphragm pumps, but there is a reason the piston pump is the pump of choice for the high output (energy hog style) water makers where you need to move larger volumes of water at pressure. Durability, Maintenance ease, and Cost. These pumps are simply bomb proof and if you screw up a wet end rebuild kit will cost you a couple hundred and is something an average cruiser can do himself. I just walked a guy through a packing and valve job while he was at anchor in St Kits. Easy....pleasy....
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Old 16-01-2015, 18:56   #102
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Re: Watermaker

Seeing as how I'm going to run a generator anyway, I though I'd put the pump back there with it, doubt the pump will be any louder than the genny. Unless I mis-understand it these things are modular and you can mount the modules where the fit best and are most accessable?


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Old 16-01-2015, 19:09   #103
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Re: Watermaker

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Seeing as how I'm going to run a generator anyway, I though I'd put the pump back there with it, doubt the pump will be any louder than the genny. Unless I mis-understand it these things are modular and you can mount the modules where the fit best and are most accessable?
That's the advantage of the modular approach for a water maker.
Mount the pump with the generator, the controls on a bulkhead, and the prefilters, that you will be changing out more often, in a place more accessible and that can tolerate a little spilled sea water during filter changes.

I think the hardest part of any water maker installation is not the physical act of connecting the inlets and outlets together of the various components, heck that easy. The hard part is taking the time to lay out the installation in the most logical way to make the best use of space.

Look at this gem installation on a Crealock 37 for example.
He didn't lose an ounce of usable space with his pump and motor install squeezed in near his quadrant. I still don't now how he pulled that off....but....it goes to show how you can be creative with mounting locations.


You can just see his pressure vessel mounted in the upper left top of the photo:



There are some water maker installation photos on this page to get some ideas.
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Old 16-01-2015, 19:19   #104
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Re: Watermaker

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Seeing as how I'm going to run a generator anyway...
That slippery slope.

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...these things are modular and you can mount the modules where the fit best and are most accessable?...
Any of it can/will develop leaks, over time. And servicing is bound to create drips. So a location where drips drain safely to the bilge is a consideration. Intake close to seacock/strainer/filters. Waste outlet close to thru-hull. Good to keep the high pressure line/s short. Easy access to serviceable equipment. Easy viewing gauges. Don't hinder access to other equipment. And don't creaate traps in lines. Sampling spigot at sink.
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Old 17-01-2015, 07:11   #105
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Re: Watermaker

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There have been a few comments on how noisy the piston pumps are. I wonder, how noisy are they really?
Depends on the pump. Our 3-piston General pump is surprisingly (to me) much less noisy than I anticipated, and quieter than the much smaller, single piston Village Marine pump it replaced. It is so quiet that it is unnoticeable.

We have friends with CAT pumps and PUR pumps that we can hear from OUR boat (slight exaggeration!). These are obnoxiously loud - particularly the CAT. The owners plan water making to occur when they leave the boat for exploring/fishing/etc.

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