Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 10-01-2015, 09:41   #16
CF Adviser
 
Pelagic's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 6,894
Re: Watermaker

My thoughts/questions below

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Yes, I said it rarely makes sense. Cases like yours are the rare one. But I bet you can't argue that a Spectra would make even more sense for a DC system (except for price).

I wonder if Spectra users get into the habit of leaving it running when they are not onboard?


FWIW, we can run ours through the inverter and either of our alternators (one on each engine) easily keeps up with the power draw. I guess those are options B and C.

How large is your inverter and would that preclude its use for other things?

Option D is to borrow a Honda generator for two hours from another boat in the anchorage in exchange for 30 gallons of water (we seem to be the only boat in the world without one of these Hondas).

Great idea....

Heck, I just bartered 10 gallons of water for a loaf of fresh bread.

I think if i could change water into bread and wine....I would be in danger of developing a Jesus complex...

Option E is to buy a Honda generator.

My 10kw Northern Lights runs the air cons/ water heater, dive compressor, bread maker, battery charges etc........ All luxuries.... So I decided to take the water marker out of that load

Mark
__________________

__________________
Pelagic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2015, 09:53   #17
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Watermaker

I certainly have seen Spectra users run it when not onboard. It is probably quite common. We used to run our Village Marine when not on board. I don't see any problem with it, so maybe I missed the point of your question?

The inverter is 3KW. The watermaker requires 1KW, so no problem. We could run other loads off it, but that is kind of hard on the batteries, and we generally don't have other large loads to run simultaneously with making water if we used it that way.

You just gave me a great idea - I'm going to ask for wine next!

I'm not arguing that a high-current DC watermaker isn't right for you. I was just passing on my experience with them. We had 480W of solar, 675Ahr of batteries, and we still found ourselves running the generator or motoring to keep up with our small DC watermaker, while constantly managing and thinking about power and water.

Now we never think about either - no longer needing to plan laundry day a week in advance so that we can make enough water, etc.

Mark
__________________

__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2015, 10:48   #18
Registered User
 
Beach Cruiser's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Cruising
Boat: Victory V35 - Beach Cruiser
Posts: 87
Re: Watermaker

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Lucky you. We installed one of their 30GPH units and it has never put out less than 33.5 gph. Most of the time it puts out 35gph.

We have never got it to run to spec.

Mark
Well actually it is putting out 34 gph as I write this, but the water is a little colder in the Abacos
__________________
Barry
s/v Beach Cruiser
Beach Cruiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2015, 12:04   #19
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Watermaker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beach Cruiser View Post
Well actually it is putting out 34 gph as I write this, but the water is a little colder in the Abacos
Ah yes, another person lied to by this company.

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2015, 15:29   #20
Registered User
 
zboss's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: On a boat
Boat: Cabo Rico 38
Posts: 3,426
Re: Watermaker

I'm very interested in the 12 volt only CRO watermaker... To me, I want to have the option of using the generator or not... Or maybe even the engine. It might produce less water than the 120volt version but unlike other 12 volt only water makers I at least get off the shelf consumables.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
zboss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2015, 15:38   #21
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2005
Boat: Outbound 44
Posts: 4,583
Re: Watermaker

Quote:
Originally Posted by zboss View Post
I'm very interested in the 12 volt only CRO watermaker... To me, I want to have the option of using the generator or not... Or maybe even the engine. It might produce less water than the 120volt version but unlike other 12 volt only water makers I at least get off the shelf consumables.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
Have you done the math on the amp-hrs consumed per gallon of water made.? The CRO units are not power efficient. They are designed for high output when you have easy access to power - aka a genset.
What consumables are you referring to? Membranes last many years, so the cost difference isn't that much. Everyone uses the same size pre- filters.
__________________
Paul L
http://svjeorgia.blogspot.com
Paul L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2015, 15:43   #22
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Watermaker

Quote:
Originally Posted by zboss View Post
I'm very interested in the 12 volt only CRO watermaker... To me, I want to have the option of using the generator or not... Or maybe even the engine. It might produce less water than the 120volt version but unlike other 12 volt only water makers I at least get off the shelf consumables.
I think Spectra uses standard membranes, cheap pickling compound, standard prefilters, and all other possible consumable parts.

Those of us who have been down this road are always talking ourselves blue to those who haven't. We also watch them ignore our experiences and get caught up in calculations, usage, production, etc that aren't born out in the real world.

So I'll step up and say this once again - feel free to ignore it, but please come back and tell us how it all worked out for you in a couple of years:

If you want a DC based system, get a Spectra or Shenker (or any other energy recovery unit if there are any).

Otherwise, get an AC unit that can be powered off a Honda generator or larger inverter (with engine alternator that can keep up).

Except for in rare cases like Pelagic's, none of the middle ground works well in the real world. You will either get anemic output to have a low amp draw, or will be running your engine or generator to get a reasonably moderate output (<12gph). Anything above 10gph or so will draw so much DC current that you will never get on top of it.

We have 480W of solar, a diesel genset that drives a 120A charger, and 240A of alternator power available. We found ourselves needing to run the genset or engines just to reasonably make water from our 6gph DC watermaker and still recharge our daily battery draw.

We had to plan a week in advance for laundry day or extra water needs, and cloudy days killed us for power.

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2015, 16:03   #23
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,056
Re: Watermaker

I have run the numbers, for me to be able to get by with a Spectra, and go with Solar only, I'd have to give up on a big 14 cu ft spill over freezer / fridge, and or become the electricity Nazi, and water Nazi. I don't want to chase my wife around telling her to stop wasting water and or electricity, and I'm sure she doesn't want me to either.
Realize I wanted to go with all Solar, but I just can't get the numbers to work, so I have a Nexgen 3.5 sitting in the garage that I need to install. I didn't want to go with a gen set, I would have preferred Solar, but I'm hoping we can get away with running the thing once or maybe twice a week, making water, washing clothes, maybe running the Hooka to clean the bottom.

My thought is if your going with an AC unit, go high volume so you don't run the generator very long, or if DC go with a Spectra so you don't have to run a generator at all.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2015, 16:33   #24
Registered User

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Mangareva, French Polynesia
Boat: Heritage West Indies 36
Posts: 513
Re: Watermaker

I kind of feel like this entire thread doesn't apply to me but i feel i have to comment as i'm sure there are people reading this who are thinking exactly the same things as me: 30gal/h!!!!!! That's about what i use in two weeks!

A DC watermaker might not be the most efficient in terms of gal/Ah but i can guarantee that my solar system can make 4 or 5 amps of surplus power in the middle of the day, and the 4.5 to 5 gallons of water made by a low-capacity Katadyne or equivalent in 3 hours is more than enough for a couple of days. Plus, it weighs 25lbs and fits into a locker. I'm just amazed that you guys have managed to fit these large-capacity systems into your boats in the first place!
__________________
DefinitelyMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2015, 16:42   #25
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,056
Watermaker

Actually as an AH per gl, the DC Spectra is the most efficient at least certainly way more efficient than AC systems.
Theory is if your going to have to run a generator anyway, your going to have an excess of power, so you don't need efficiency, but if you want to minimize gen run time you need a high capacity watermaker to do it. A couple of hours a week maybe 60 gls of water, yes that is a lot. Remember though there is a set up time to get the thing going and then time and water to flush it after your done, so it's not a straight 30 gls and hour times x hours, but if your going to run it, I assume your going for two hours min?
I hope to be the guy who gives away water at anchorages, look for me


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2015, 17:24   #26
senior windbag
 
Cuttyhunk's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: northeast USA
Boat: EndeavourCat 36
Posts: 373
Re: Watermaker

What attracts me to the Spectra is the automatic flushing/no pickling needed option. I had a Powersurvivor years ago, and it required a lot of maintenance and frequent rebuilding. It was really the only option for a smallish sailboat back in 1991, and the R/O water was wonderful. This time around, I'd like something a lot more robust and it would be nice to skip the pickling. However, I do have a generator, so I may end up with an AC system.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
Cuttyhunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2015, 18:49   #27
Sponsoring Vendor
 
Tellie's Avatar

Community Sponsor

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hollywood, Fl.
Boat: FP Athena 38' Poerava
Posts: 3,046
Re: Watermaker

The thing with watermakers is you want to be right the first time you buy one. They are expensive, even the small ones. Another thing I deal with all the time, and no offense meant to anyone, is the fact that most times those giving advice are doing so based on their own limited experience and that of a handful of others and what seems to have or have not worked for them based on their wants and their boats capabilities. Because your dock buddy thinks his watermaker is the cats meow and recommends that you get one just like his is where the trouble begins. I call it the Goldilocks approach because no two cruisers are alike, you need to find a watermaker that fits you just right. Like cruisers, boats and their capacities are different. Each situation will always be different and trying to apply your logic to another cruiser rarely works. There are many choices available out there. But choosing a watermaker based on price alone is another mistake often made as is choosing a watermaker based on capacity. Anyone who thinks you can't buy too large a watermaker and recommends buying a large capacity watermaker has never listened to the Gemini owner who was sold a 45gph watermaker. Or the owner of a new 48' Leopard who bought a Powersurvivor80 for his family of four with 240 gallon fresh water capacity. Though portable generators have found a place for some watermaker applications, and it works for some, you'll be hard pressed to find the owners of a new 56' Hylas willing to shlep out a gasoline generator and bungee cord it down every other day to make water. Again, what works for you will rarely work for another or meet their particular demands. Whether one uses AC or DC to power their watermakers is again dependent on the needs and boats capabilities. AC systems are not all plunger type energy hog watermakers. At 110V I can give you 75 gallons per hour using only 983Watts, wanna go 220V and I can do even better at 125 gallons per hour on 1200Watts. You could run that off a $150 inverter or a 2000Watt gasoline generator. But it doesn't make sense for most cruisers. What about a manual system verses a fully automated system? A basic manual system is going to tie you to the boat or you'll be pickling the system often, not always so good for the membrane and other components. I have systems that only require a fresh water flush once every thirty days. I could go on about many more options and properly planned systems for pages, but my point is finally, speak to several known "reputable" watermaker people that do this for a living before you shell out any hard earned money. Call Rich, call me. If you don't like what we have to offer we will both recommend each other or a direction that might be better suited to you.

Halden Marine Services | Marine Watermakers, Solar Panels, Wind Generators
Tellie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2015, 19:11   #28
Registered User
 
nimblemotors's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sacramento, California
Boat: Solar 40ft Cat :)
Posts: 1,557
Re: Watermaker

I am of the same opinion, but there is an issue of noise with these things.
I would not want one making noise for 4 hours. If it is quiet, then it would not matter, or could be sufficiently muffled in a box, etc. If you have to run a motor to operate one, then the noise is there already and one would try to shorten the time by making more water faster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DefinitelyMe View Post
I kind of feel like this entire thread doesn't apply to me but i feel i have to comment as i'm sure there are people reading this who are thinking exactly the same things as me: 30gal/h!!!!!! That's about what i use in two weeks!

A DC watermaker might not be the most efficient in terms of gal/Ah but i can guarantee that my solar system can make 4 or 5 amps of surplus power in the middle of the day, and the 4.5 to 5 gallons of water made by a low-capacity Katadyne or equivalent in 3 hours is more than enough for a couple of days. Plus, it weighs 25lbs and fits into a locker. I'm just amazed that you guys have managed to fit these large-capacity systems into your boats in the first place!
__________________
JackB
MiniMPPT Solar Controller
nimblemotors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2015, 20:32   #29
Sponsoring Vendor
 
Tellie's Avatar

Community Sponsor

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hollywood, Fl.
Boat: FP Athena 38' Poerava
Posts: 3,046
Re: Watermaker

Quote:
Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post
I am of the same opinion, but there is an issue of noise with these things.
I would not want one making noise for 4 hours. If it is quiet, then it would not matter, or could be sufficiently muffled in a box, etc. If you have to run a motor to operate one, then the noise is there already and one would try to shorten the time by making more water faster.

Spectra is going to be the most quiet watermaker. Installed right it will be barely noticeable.
Tellie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2015, 21:03   #30
Senior Cruiser
 
senormechanico's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2003
Boat: Dragonfly 1000 trimaran
Posts: 5,830
Re: Watermaker

As a sailor who has had 3 watermakers on 2 boats, I definitely like my Spectra far and away over the previous ones.
Every 8 seconds, the Spectra goes hummmm, click, hummmm, click.

The Powersurvivor 35 and the PS80 went, "NYOOOWWW, NYOOOWWW,NYOOOWWW !!

The 80 was much better engineered and more dependable, but it just ran faster, and the sound still drove us nuts which reminded us of some piece of equipment saying, "ERROR ! ERRROR ! ERROR ! or a washing machine out of balance that was dancing across the floor.

The Spectra has manners,is quieter, and sips amps at HALF the amount per gallon of the other brand.

We are not full time cruisers, but we do liveaboard in the summer and would never consider another brand.

Tellie knows his stuff.
__________________

__________________
Memento,homo, quia pulvis es, et in pulverem reverteris.
senormechanico is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
water, watermaker

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Affordable Watermaker Brent Swain Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 36 09-06-2010 16:48
Watermaker From A Pressure Cooker Se Langt Provisioning: Food & Drink 14 09-04-2005 05:06
Wind Watermaker troppoboat Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 2 04-06-2004 14:02
pickled watermaker irwinsailor Provisioning: Food & Drink 1 12-06-2003 21:02



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:52.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.