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Old 31-05-2016, 11:03   #31
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Re: Water Maker AC Or DC

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Originally Posted by Tellie View Post
Spectra tends to be typecasted as the low out put low voltage systems. But we make extremely energy efficient AC systems as well. Though these are usually for higher end boats whose water needs are larger than the smaller cruising boat, these systems are engineered for light weight, small foot print, and low power requirements. I have units that will make 130 gallons per hour using only 1200 Watts. Hey, you could literally use your Honda EU2000 to fill your tanks and three neighbors tanks while still charging your batteries.


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Tellie,

Can you please give more info on exactly this system that you mentioned - 130gph on 1200Watts. I checked the relevant websites but couldn't find anything. Also, what would a system like this price at?
Thanks!
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Old 23-07-2016, 21:27   #32
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Re: Water Maker AC Or DC

have a friend sailing in the Whitsundays with a A/C Rainman running off a Honda Genset and says it is just amazing compared to his old 12 volt Spectra unit and just to simple for words in the maintenance and running cost side also.
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Old 24-07-2016, 02:48   #33
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Re: Water Maker AC Or DC

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Originally Posted by typhoon View Post
Drive the high pressure pump right off the generator . Only one thing in the chain to fail and make more water at a time .

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Way to go. Cat triplex pump with an electric clutch, SS fluid end and SS valving and piping and four big RO elements. Run it 1/2 hour a day.
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Old 24-07-2016, 06:38   #34
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Re: Water Maker AC Or DC

Excellent to hear, thanks. We have just got back from 3 weeks in the Channel Islands and France and I have a Cetrek autopilot and a wheelhouse door slider to fix before I can get to the watermaker. I do like the idea of a mains motor running off the Honda genset. It might be easier than messing around with hanging the Cat pump off the main engine crankshaft, although it does have a spare pulley.....
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Old 24-07-2016, 12:35   #35
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Re: Water Maker AC Or DC

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Originally Posted by RaymondR View Post
Way to go. Cat triplex pump with an electric clutch, SS fluid end and SS valving and piping and four big RO elements. Run it 1/2 hour a day.

Even better , a hydra cell pump , no Pistons , no oil in the pressurized water .

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Old 24-07-2016, 16:09   #36
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Re: Water Maker AC Or DC

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Originally Posted by Wight Mistress View Post
Excellent to hear, thanks. We have just got back from 3 weeks in the Channel Islands and France and I have a Cetrek autopilot and a wheelhouse door slider to fix before I can get to the watermaker. I do like the idea of a mains motor running off the Honda genset. It might be easier than messing around with hanging the Cat pump off the main engine crankshaft, although it does have a spare pulley.....
Bingo....much easier.
After having an engine driven water myself, there is a reason we switched to a direct drive 1.0hp motor direct coupled to a 1.6gpm pump powered by the Honda 2000. Simplicity. I only half joke that I will only sell an engine driven unit only after I first try to talk them out of it. The two main reasons are that the pump/engine mount is much harder than it seems and then I'm not a fan of running my most expensive and maintenance intense thing on the boat to make water (the main engine). Sure you get water for "free" when motoring, but the Honda can make water while also charging the batteries at the same time. And when it comes time for an oil change you just lift the Honda up and dump it out...easy pleasy.

If the Honda dies or you want to make water underway without messing with the Honda, then just run the 20 or 30GPH water maker through a 2000W inverter with power from your alternator.

In terms of piston pump oil getting into the high pressure sea water flow and damaging the membranes, I have never seen that happen. I guess it could, a metor could land on my head, but if a seal failure happens the high pressure sea water would push into the pump crank case or more likely flow out of the weep holes on the pump, designed for that porpose. Low pressure oil would have a hard time flowing into the Hp sea water stream.
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Old 24-07-2016, 16:54   #37
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Re: Water Maker AC Or DC

Just know it's gonna take roughly 100+ amps DC to run one of Rich's or I assume most non recovery ones.
But it is good being able to run one from multiple sources.


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Old 24-07-2016, 17:30   #38
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Re: Water Maker AC Or DC

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Originally Posted by typhoon View Post
Even better , a hydra cell pump , no Pistons , no oil in the pressurized water .

Regards


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The diaphragm isolation pumps are a good concept in that the high pressurisation of the output product is done in a high lubricity oil environment rather which is separated from the pumped product by a diaphragm. I have inspected an installation for pumping sand about 7 miles through a 7" pipe line to a cement works using Geco 2,000 hp pumps on this principal. However the development of ceramic plungers and better seals has solved the seal and plunger wear problems formerly experienced with high pressure water pumps. The Hydra Cell swashplate rotary pumps are very nice looking pumps though and probably provide a lighter pump for the same output volume than the recip plunger pumps.
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Old 24-07-2016, 17:44   #39
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Re: Water Maker AC Or DC

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Just know it's gonna take roughly 100+ amps DC to run one of Rich's or I assume most non recovery ones.
But it is good being able to run one from multiple sources.


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Not necessarily. Our 50 l/hr Dessalator watermaker is a 24v DC driven unit that draws about 16-17 amps (again @24 volt). Our installation uses a simple belt driven triplex pump with no pressure recovery or boost pump. Mid-day I can often run it off the solar panels (825 watts) and still put power into the batteries.
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Old 24-07-2016, 19:36   #40
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Re: Water Maker AC Or DC

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Originally Posted by Hobie_ind View Post
Not necessarily. Our 50 l/hr Dessalator watermaker is a 24v DC driven unit that draws about 16-17 amps (again @24 volt). Our installation uses a simple belt driven triplex pump with no pressure recovery or boost pump. Mid-day I can often run it off the solar panels (825 watts) and still put power into the batteries.
Not all piston pump water maker applications are the same, your unit is a lower output unit that attempts to say within the running Amps of a 12v/24v DC system. (50L/hr = 13.2Gals/hr for 825W).

Our design approach was to maximize the efficiency out of the piston pump and generator run time and make as much water as possible (20GPH or 33GPM for 1100W). This approach means you will only need to run the water maker 2-3 times per week when you are running the generator for other loads and not pull anything out of your battery bank to keep your tanks full.

Now which ways is "better"?
12v/24v Energy Recovery.
12v/24v Piston Pump.
120v/220v AC Piston pump or
Engine Driven using no power.

The right answer is "It Depends".
It depends on how you plan to run and set-up your boat's power system and what your cruising style is. Just like their is no perfect boat that suits all cruisers needs and wants, there is no "perfect water maker". Key is to understand the strength and weaknesses of each approach to getting sea water up to 800psi. Getting larger or smaller flows of sea water to 800psi is what it all boils down to at the end of the day. Well that and how long a shower your wife/girlfriend can take without you turning off the pressurized water pump. Hint guys...the longer that is...the more likely and longer your wife/girlfriend will go and then stay out cruising with you...so plan wisely grasshopper. Romance is less likely at sea with a Hudson garden sprayer shower...I'm just sayin...
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Old 24-07-2016, 20:53   #41
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Re: Water Maker AC Or DC

I fully agree that 'It Depends' Rich.

I was simply pointing out that A64Pilot's apparent assertion that 'most non-recovery' systems would require 100+ amps running on DC wasn't a universal truth.

It's a system on a boat.....that automatically means there will be compromises necessary IMO :-)

For us (family of 4, 1000 L storage capacity, crusing full-time, anchored out 95+% of the time, topped up from a dock twice in the past two years, small washing machine on the boat, aware of water usage, but not fanatical) the system works fine, but I agree I certainly wouldn't want a smaller system. Before we put solar on the boat, I often said I would have preferred a higher output AC system and yours in particular were high on the list of systems I would have put in. However, since we put the solar on a year and half ago, and run the generator SUBSTANTIALLY less, I find the DC system we have works quite well for our needs now.
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Old 24-07-2016, 21:01   #42
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Re: Water Maker AC Or DC

Real life examples like yours are great to have.
If you can deal with the power usage of a non-energy recovery piston pump then you get the best of both worlds. The simplicity and durability of a piston pump with the ability to make water from your batteries/solar.

When we started out cruising with 260W of solar our lives and systems were different than they are now that we have 1300W of solar and a 400 AH LiFePO4 batter bank.

Enjoy the Cruise Amigo.
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Old 24-07-2016, 21:42   #43
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Re: Water Maker AC Or DC

No worries Rich. I generally try to put a bit of background as applicable for our individual situation in most posts as I firmly don't think one size fits all, and I hope it helps the OP or followup readers better use the data for their own decisions.

I did realize I forgot to include one key bit of information on the last post though. I looked back over the past two years of cruising recently and estimated our water usage based on watermaker hours. During that time we've averaged almost exactly 50L/day. The only two things I can probably add to my previous description is that we probably average two loads of laundry a week (~35 L/ load), and we don't use seawater for washing dishes or food prep, freshwater only. Again it's just one data point, but I thought you might find it useful to add to your information inventory.
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Old 26-07-2016, 17:54   #44
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Re: Water Maker AC Or DC

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Originally Posted by poppyduc View Post
have a friend sailing in the Whitsundays with a A/C Rainman running off a Honda Genset and says it is just amazing compared to his old 12 volt Spectra unit and just to simple for words in the maintenance and running cost side also.
I wholeheartedly agree with this. I bought one 5 months ago and have been cruising full time with a family of 5 and our Rainman has been amazing. It makes more water than speced, even here in the hot salty Carib. I would recommend it 100%.

I would also recommend Seatask up in Florida for a US dealer. Their service both up front and after has been unmatched by any company I have ever dealt with.
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Old 04-08-2016, 09:34   #45
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Re: Water Maker AC Or DC

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Originally Posted by Wight Mistress View Post
Hi Rich, many thanks for your prompt response. I will email you some pics.
Currently I have another water system in bits (my bathroom in our house - 75 paces away from our boat) so it will be a week or so before I can get back to you. Emailing you now as well.
A huge thank you for your response, we really appreciate it.
Regards
Steve and Barbara
75 paces from the boat! That's just not fair! When I had the boat in Kwajalein I had to bike down to the harbor, ride the dingy out to the mooring, decide that I was missing a specific screw, dingy back, bike back home, repeat!!!
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