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Old 29-07-2014, 13:44   #16
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Re: Water filtration w/ no pressure pump

Have a largish generic household type filter that I got from Lowes. The foot pump is a double action pump like, but not the same as, the Whale double action foot pump. Installed a charcoal filter which I believe is primarily for 'taste' but also filters out debris. At first there was some slowing of the spring powered second stage of the pumps foot action. It wasn't a big thing but the pedal was slow enough on the return to notice. It went away in about a week of regular use and pump works without problems now. Could have been an issue with the pump or the filter. Have never used it without the filter in place so can't give you an A-B comparison. Enough to say, haven't got any complaints how the pump works with the filter. The filter works great, btw. Removes the chlorine taste and provides good drinking water.
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Old 29-07-2014, 14:13   #17
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Re: Water filtration w/ no pressure pump

There are a lot of "details" to this and they are VERY important, as some filters will actually grow bacteria and make the water less safe and some are certified to make remove everything down to viruses. To gloss over the fine print is equivalent to saying that paint is paint, and to use latex house paint on the top and bottom of your boat; at best sub-optimal and at worst harmful. Most filters that are purchased serve no useful purpose because they are mis-specified, but the owners swear by them. For most folks, if there is some carbon to remove chlorine, that is all they will notice, and there is also a placebo effect.

I posted a few thoughts here, not refined, that discuss that water treatment has many components. The final tap filter is only one. Each step requires that you understand what you are trying to accomplish.
Sail Delmarva: Drinking Water Filtration--The Short Version

Target 9000. The engineering is simple. Go to Filters Fast and order a G3 2x10 housing and a Floplus-10 filter. This is NSF rated for cycsts and will stop most bacteria. You can go one step further and order a P231 filter (DVG-50), which is independently certified for all disease organisms. Both combination are far cheaper than the Seagull route, and parts are available world-wide. By the way, Seagull is NOT certified by NSF or any other recognized testing organization to remove microorganisms (NSF 53 or NSF P231), though the advertising would suggest otherwise. Their budget does not allow for NSF/ANSI certification; I guess it is a price-point product. I think the Seagull is a very good filter, it is just that it's mythical status is undeserved. There are many excellent and more economical products out there now, the result of keen interest in drinking water and global competition. Many apply to boating and we should take advantage of that.

A64. I did not answer my own question (can a foot pump manage a 0.2 micron carbon block or ceramic filter). I would honestly like to know the answer. I only observed that flow is restricted even with a pressure pump. I don't know much about foot pumps and didn't suggest that I did. I was trying to broach a central concern, which is that filters are extremely variable, with different characteristics and functions. The OP did not say which type, and he needed to. I believe that most people that have studied the subject would agree that either a NSF 53 rated filter or no filter is best.

Silver impregnation is intended to reduce growth inside the filter on the element, but many authorities do not agree that this is effective and there is no certification mechanism; the bacteria can easily grow on junk that accumulates in the filter without touching the carbon granules. These filters are suited to home use where the water is continuously chlorinated and are not suited to application like boats where chlorination is hit-or-miss. This information can be found on filter manufacture web sites. Home filtration and boat filtration have very different problems and very different objectives.

KDF filters are in a different class, better suited to intermittent use. But I think there are better options for the tap.

----

So, has anyone used very fine filter (ceramic, carbon block, or Seagull) with a foot pump?
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Old 29-07-2014, 14:47   #18
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Re: Water filtration w/ no pressure pump

So why would anyone want to use one those VERY expensive filters when a little chlorine and a cheap filter does just fine. Could it be the paranoia that is sweeping the nation/world leaving us in fear of our own shadows?? Might have some reason to use one if you regularly fill your tanks with the Ganges river. For the most part, even in remote places, will be filling our tanks with city water that is already treated. A little chlorine to kill anything that sneaks in and Bob's your uncle.

If a filter system requires much pressure to force the water through, it will probably not work well with a double action foot pump. The spring powered return cycle just won't have enough oomph to return the pedal quickly. IIRC, the through the floor Whale pumps are single action so might work okay as they do not require a spring to complete the cycle. They are not as efficient as the double action pump as they only pump on the down stroke. We had those pumps on our last boat and they worked okay, just didn't as much water as quickly as the double stroke pumps. We didn't turn on the pressure for a year of cruising and didn't miss it.
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Old 29-07-2014, 15:06   #19
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Re: Water filtration w/ no pressure pump

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So why would anyone want to use one those VERY expensive filters when a little chlorine and a cheap filter does just fine.
Generally I agree with you, particularly in the US. We have very safe water. However, there are good reasons for better filters in some circumstances. Also, the NSF 53 rated FloPlus-10 I suggested is only $16; a very nice filter for just a little money. In fact, the thing I like about the G3 housings (same price as the hardware store housings--$14 direct--but with a slight difference in molding that allows it to take both common 2x10 OBE and some other filter styles too) from Pentek is that they will hold cheap cartridges AND you can switch to the high dollar P231 cartridges only when you get the bug to go 3rd world (and chlorinate anyway).

a. Chlorine does not always kill cysts (cryptosporidium and gardia), as well as parasites common in the 3rd world.
b. Granulated carbon actually grows bacteria if the chlorination is not consistent, and other than a live-aboard (which is like a house), we do not chlorinate every day.
c. Even better taste, as colloidal particles are also removed. Water is forced into closer contact with the carbon.
d. Some marinas are on well water (mine), and some of these are hard to trust. Often the well head is subject to frequent coastal flooding, and the houses are on septic.
e. Wife likes the idea of a microbe-proof filter. In fact, this is the ONLY way to get some folks off bottles. She gets a filter, I get a new mainsail! All kidding aside, if it makes her happy it is smart money.

For the coastal sailor, $30 can by a very good system that is upgradable for all hazards. I dramatically reduced my bottled water store (I still stock some as back-up).

But you are right, there is a lot of paranoia out there.
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Old 29-07-2014, 15:08   #20
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Re: Water filtration w/ no pressure pump

Thanks for the info thinwater, I was looking on fast filters and didn't see a G3 housing? Is there some specific name for it?
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Old 29-07-2014, 15:30   #21
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Re: Water filtration w/ no pressure pump

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Thanks for the info thinwater, I was looking on fast filters and didn't see a G3 housing? Is there some specific name for it?
Many options. Depends on pipe size, what mounting you like (hang under or against a wall), clear vs. blue, pressure break (useless, one more place to leak). I believe I have the 158620 ($11.99). I have tested many filters.

Pentek 158608 3G-SL 3/8" Housing Only $11.49
Pentek 150071 Standard Clear 3/4" Filter Housing Only $27.99
Pentek 150574 Standard Black/Blue 3/4" Housing Only $35.99
Pentek 158623 1/2" 3G Slim Line 10" Clear Housing Only $16.97
Pentek 158620 1/2" 3G Slim Line 10" Blue Housing Only $11.99
Search with "housing, 2 x 10, the pipe size you want, and g3." If you don't care about the top-of-the-line P231 filters, a slimline housing is cheaper.

Also consider the Doulton Sterysil carbon + ceramic filter OBE; these are cleanable.
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Old 11-02-2015, 19:26   #22
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Re: Water filtration w/ no pressure pump

Fyi- our foot pump could not handle 1 micron filter. We had to install pressure. The foot pump worked fine with activated charcoal filter.
We are now using ceramic filter ( daulton ultracarb) in galley. We still have option to manual pump straight from tank.
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