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Old 16-06-2014, 14:00   #31
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Re: Water Filtration Question

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OK for fill lines, but this is not useful for general purpose potable water use:
1. Not for pressure.
2. Not for propylene glycol. Vinyl hose leaching is increased when used with glycol.
3. "FDA formula" is not the same as FDA aproved or NSF certified. Standard vendor mumbo gumbo. Not a certified hose.
4. The FDA formulation was probably not tested with glycol, because it is specifically not rated for glycol.

Seatech, on the other hand is NSF list for potable water.
SEATECH PRODUCTS Quick Connect Plumbing Fittings | West Marine. Not just FDA formula," but independently tested and certified. Likewise, PVC pipe from Home Depot is NSF certified.

Some vinyl is. Most hoses are not.

So I believe there is a lot of non-potable and non-certified plumbing in boats. And yes, the manufacturers do that, because they feel they are exempt from home plumbing codes. Ask, and that is the answer you will get.

Interesting, thanks for factoids. That part of our system is not pressurized, and there's a T fitting in the middle so I can drain it... no need for propylene glycol (potable anti-freeze).

Can you say what might have been a better choice of 1Ĺ" flexible hose for this crossover application?

-Chris
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Old 16-06-2014, 18:41   #32
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Re: Water Filtration Question

^^ That's an oddball, and so I think the 148 was a fair choice. I've got no better idea, other than PVC.

I just didn't want to see anyone use it under pressure! Ouch.
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Old 17-06-2014, 05:42   #33
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Re: Water Filtration Question

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^^ That's an oddball, and so I think the 148 was a fair choice. I've got no better idea, other than PVC.

I just didn't want to see anyone use it under pressure! Ouch.


That was sorta the conclusion I came to, at the time. And the original connector was the just clear/helix bilge pump hose, so I reckoned 148 would be better than that.

When I did it ,I could not have gotten close enough to the tanks to attach PVC fittings to the tank barbs. Since then I've made some improvements to access, so I could maybe sorta kinda get there, one handed...

But then the PVC run would have to go through some limber holes in the stringers, flatten out across part of the bilge (haven't ever seen the specific angle I'd require in a PVC product)... and I don't think I could get there from here, without some flexible pieces along the way. Given that, I went with a flexible product for the whole thing.

But that doesn't mean I'm not open to improvement!

-Chris
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Old 22-06-2014, 19:41   #34
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Re: Water Filtration Question

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Hello guys,

Yesterday it occurred to me that it is going to be a real pain in the booty having to constantly lug and store gallons and gallons of drinking water for 7-11 people.

I was thinking I might be better off installing a water filter for our drinking water under the galley sink. Has anyone done this? Did you use a Home Depot model or a marine grade? Are you happy with it? Anything that I should consider?
Home Depot is fine. The thing to look for is availability, longevity, and cost of filter elements, and ease of changing them.

Since you have a watermaker, if your tanks are clean and in good shape, a filter isn't essential anyway. So you could just flush and drain the tanks, and ur good to go. Your engineer appointee can see to that. A properly operating reverse osmosis system makes very good drinking water.

I cut my teeth on trawlers with topside steel water tanks and when the tanks are 20 or 30 years old they get a little rusty inside lol. In calm weather the water was fine. When it gets rough, the water gets a lovely orangey brown shade. Never hurt me. Just more iron.
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Old 23-06-2014, 11:55   #35
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Re: Water Filtration Question

^^

a. I don't think she has a water maker. Also, water makers do not filter out microorganisms (none are so certified without further treatment).

b. Home depot does sell several NSF 53 elements, but they are 2-3x the cost of the Pentek elements I quoted. The housing is also over double the price. They do have cheaper elements, but they can actually make microbial problems worse as they provide breeding grounds. You need to get the right elements, and I'm not so sure the staff can help with that. So, yes, it can definatly be done through Home Depot, with careful selaection and a big wallet. Just not my choise.
GE FXUVC
GE FXULC
GE FXSVC

And none of these are rated as microbial bariers against bacteria and viruses. Can't get that at Home Depot.
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Old 23-06-2014, 18:46   #36
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Re: Water Filtration Question

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^^

a. I don't think she has a water maker. Also, water makers do not filter out microorganisms (none are so certified without further treatment).

b. Home depot does sell several NSF 53 elements, but they are 2-3x the cost of the Pentek elements I quoted. The housing is also over double the price. They do have cheaper elements, but they can actually make microbial problems worse as they provide breeding grounds. You need to get the right elements, and I'm not so sure the staff can help with that. So, yes, it can definatly be done through Home Depot, with careful selaection and a big wallet. Just not my choise.
GE FXUVC
GE FXULC
GE FXSVC

And none of these are rated as microbial bariers against bacteria and viruses. Can't get that at Home Depot.
You realize, of course, that the glass you drink from is teeming with squirming, writhing little microbes, oozing and scuttling all over it, right? And that the food you eat has a gazillion microorganisms, and even if your food and water were perfectly sterile, there are already humongozillions of germs already inside your mouth? And I don't suppose you filter that nasty, virus laden air that you breathe? With sound tanks, and good maintenance, and sufficient tuenover/throughput, and good water to start with, there simply is no issue. Shore water, otoh, in some places, might call for some serious filtration or sterilization. But I do believe she mentioned a water maker some time back.

There are some very good suggestions above, at various price points, and when money is no object or when shore water of doubtful quality must be used. I have no filter on my boat and I drink tank water, at least I do when I am out of beer. But I make a point of flushing my tank once a month.
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Old 23-06-2014, 18:55   #37
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Re: Water Filtration Question

^^ Agreed. I certainly drank out of some mud puddles during my back packing days, and I have no sanitation phobias now. I was simply responding to questions. I've drunk non-filtered boat water for years. And beer (Black Toad or Lagunitas Shut-down).

But check-out the prices at FiltersFast.com. They kick Home Depot in the dirt. The housing + filter price from FF was $12 + $15 = $27 for and NSF 53 certified system, vs. $35 + $32 = $67 at Home Depot for an equivalent system, apples to apples. Home Depot does not carry am NSF P231 filter, but few people really need these. I was trying to introduce a great cost saving site with both basic and high spec products for fair prices.
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Old 23-06-2014, 20:26   #38
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Re: Water Filtration Question

We don't use 5 gallon jugs... we use a 60 gallon potable water bladder (aquatank2) and a fresh water pump just like you use for your fresh water system. Go to the dock, hook up hose, fill bag in dinghy, take dinghy to boat, plug hose into water pump and fill tanks. Rinse bag with water/bleach combo and put away.

It takes us about an hour to fill 150 gallons of water, no heavy lifting, and no large jugs. All the equipment fits into a space the size of a milk crate.

They make much larger water bladders.
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Old 24-06-2014, 20:56   #39
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Re: Water Filtration Question

Somehow I can't lead myself to trust a filter to ensure my water is pure enough to drink. One of the filters mentioned is only good for 600 gallons. That is not a lot.
What if the filter is defective?
I have two uv sterilization systems. One right after the freshwater pump and another under the galley sink. So my icemaker/drinking/cooking water gets double zapped.


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Old 26-06-2014, 10:18   #40
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Re: Water Filtration Question

GG,

When I needed new filters for my water maker, I found neither Lowe's nor HD, had what I wanted.
I found out all on line at Amazon.
I got two filter housings and got both 1 & 5 micron, non paper filters for a great price.

If you need more plumbing connections, I works get this at Lowe's or HD.

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Old 26-06-2014, 22:27   #41
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Re: Water Filtration Question

Hey guys,

We arrived to the boat on Tuesday. There was an Aqua Pure filter already installed under the galley sink that filtered the tap and fridge water. I called the company and asked about the filter and the rep said that it is no good for what I want, bacteria etc.

Luckily, I had already ordered the filter that Thinwater suggested. It was here when we arrived. The Pentek filter is good for bacteria, cysts and viruses. I had someone from the yard come over and swap it out for me. I also changed the internal filter on the fridge. The water tastes amazing. Like Thinwater said, it's better than bottled water.

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I did make one mistake. I should have done the bleach sanitization before I installed the filter. I can't understand why there aren't any shut off valves under the galley sink? Do boats not have shut-off valves at each fixture or is this just the case with mine? Why don't they?

Thinwater, if I unscrew the housing to pull the filter out, water will flow everywhere right? I need to drain the system before doing so, correct? I don't want to ruin the filter when I add bleach to the tank.
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Old 26-06-2014, 23:23   #42
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Re: Water Filtration Question

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Hey guys,

We arrived to the boat on Tuesday. There was an Aqua Pure filter already installed under the galley sink

<snip>
Attachment 83931

<snip>
.
In your photo, at the bottom right, is that a live wire that is just hanging there next to the ground? I see a black wire (connected to the disposal white) and a white and green next to it... in the open....

or am I just seeing things after drinking too much unsterilized water.....
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Old 27-06-2014, 07:04   #43
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Re: Water Filtration Question

GG, just turn off the water pressure switch/breaker and put a towel or two under the filters.
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Old 27-06-2014, 21:21   #44
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Re: Water Filtration Question

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Thinwater, if I unscrew the housing to pull the filter out, water will flow everywhere right? I need to drain the system before doing so, correct? I don't want to ruin the filter when I add bleach to the tank.
Look nice.

Every winter (where it gets cold) and every time you sanitize, you pop the cartridge out and put the blue shell back on empty. Just turn off the pump, close the tank outlet, and open a tap to depressurize. Hand tight for the housing is enough.

I find it easier to slide a skillet under the filter. Not much water comes out if you keep it up-right, just a few teaspoons.

And look what came out of a dock side hose during just one fill-up today. I swear. I flexed the hose a little to see what would happen (inside of 4" filter). So filter the fill too.


No, they seldom put valves at the taps.
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Old 28-06-2014, 05:42   #45
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Re: Water Filtration Question

Two more things:

How's the flow? Does it fill a glass in 4-6 seconds?

As for lifetime, these ratings are not easy to understand. This unit will not "fail" at 600 gallons, but rather it will fail one component of the that rating, under the test conditions, at that gallons. Because the microbe barrier is a membrane with only limitied pre-filtration, under the conditions of the test the flow rate will fall below the rating at 600 gallons. It will not start passing microrganisms. It is also rated for removing organic chemicals like solvents (they are in the "test water"). If the water is pre-filtered before filling and does not contain solvents, the life expectancy of the filter is actually many thousands of gallons.

The test fluid contains the equivalent of 1% raw sewage plus extra coloidal solids (clay). The EPA came up with this standard to deal with water contaminated by failed wells and line pressure drops (water and sewer line run in the same trench--if both leak and the water pressure drops, guess what can suck into the water line). They never envisioned that anyone would use them to process water that is KNOWN to be unsafe, hence the CYA warning on the package, but they are test for doing just that.

A UV sterilizer is not removing silt and chemicals and thus is not rated for wearing out. On the other hand, if the bulb is scaled or burns out, there is nothing. And them there is always the power usage.

At the end of the day it always comes down to total system design, maintenance, and how safe is safe. Unless 100% of you dietary exposure comes from the faucet (not going ashore or eating-out), there is little reason to worry about perfection; the 5% you get from other exposure out weighs any 99.9999% efficiency rating.
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