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Old 12-04-2012, 18:54   #31
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Re: Type I MSD

The Groco ThermoPure 2 can be a good choice for a large (40' +) trawler or power cruiser, but a price tag that starts at over $4,000 and power needs that require both 115v AC and DC puts it out of range for smaller vessels.

I suggest that you consider adding either a PuraSan or ElectroScan and the "hold 'n' treat" controls to your existing tank for price of less than half that much...and it only needs DC power. Check 'em here: Raritan holdntreat.pdf Raritan Purasan Raritan Electro Scan
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Old 12-04-2012, 19:14   #32
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Re: Type I MSD

Peg-
"The "tablet dispenser"--which doesn't actually dispense tablets, but contains a single solid block ("tablet") of hypochlorous acid"
My understanding is that the "tablet" is actually salt. The acid is formed by running an electric charge through a concentrated salt-water solution, and that's actually a pretty common way of generating the acid for water purification purposes. MSR does this in a "pen" to purify water for campers, takes just salt and batteries.
It looks like the Purasan is just a Lectrasan modified a little to consider that it is using fresh water rather than salt water to start with, so it would need more salt to be added in each cycle. (Or something modified in the "tablet" ?)

I've seen a number of complaints online from folks who said "never again!" because they needed to replace the plates in their Electro/Lectra-sans too frequently, and yet the owners manual says they should just need routine acid cleaning every second year.

What gives? Is this a technology of last resort, or are there real issues with either owners or the qa process?

Of course up here in LISound now that the world is a huge NDZ with few or no convenient pumpout stations...the only real problem is that the USPS really doesn't allow you to MAIL THE STUFF where it belongs. To the guys who write the laws based on mythological pumpout stations and ban TypeI's as not good enough.
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Old 12-04-2012, 20:18   #33
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Re: Type I MSD

You've managed to take parts of the PuraSan and the ElectroScan and assemble 'em into a third device that doesn't exist!

The LectraSan/ElectroScan doesn't have any type of dispenser...it has an electrode pack and creates hypochlorous acid by charging the ions in the flush water (salt water) with electrical current. In fresh or brackish water salt must be added, requiring the appropriate "salt feed tank" for the type of toilet or by adding it manually to each flush.

The PuraSan was designed for use in fresh water but will work equally well in fresh or salt water. It doesn't have an electrode pack...instead it has the "tablet" dispenser that doesn't dispense anything...the "tablet" is actually a block of hypochlorous acid over which the flush water (fresh OR salt) washes, carrying enough away to treat the waste.

I've seen a number of complaints online from folks who said "never again!" because they needed to replace the plates in their Electro/Lectra-sans too frequently, and yet the owners manual says they should just need routine acid cleaning every second year.

That's not what the owner manual says. 99% of problems with either device can be laid directly at the owner's feet--failure to follow directions...and not only about cleaning frequency--which btw, varies depending upon water temperature...the warmer the water, the higher the mineral content...the higher the mineral content, the more often the electrode pack needs cleaning...as often as 3 months in the tropics--but by ignoring blinking yellow lights, odor and other OBVIOUS symptoms that the device needs attention. Raritan has tried to save owners from themselves by replacing blinking lights with LEDs and adding more of 'em that spell out the system's condition.

Before you jump to any more wrong conclusions, you might want to read--actually read, not just skim--the owners manuals for all of the systems for which I provided links...You'll find links to the owners manuals on the left side of each page. There are links on the left side of the page at each of the links I gave you.
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Old 13-04-2012, 12:46   #34
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Re: Type I MSD

Peg-
That's why I asked someone who would know.<G>

I suspect the tablets are really disodium oxalate, aka sodium oxalate, since that is a solid and hypochlorous acid is a liquid. Mix the former in water, it becomes the latter, apparently pretty much instantly.

Oddly enough, Raritan does not seem to publish the MSDS on the tablets, and the DOT requires an MSDS be published on "chemicals" that are shipped across interstate borders. So your local hazmat team can pretty much instantly find out why their trucks are melting, and whether to toast marshmallows or weenies if they fire can't be put out. DOT sometimes gets real up$et about that. But if you can convince Raritan to post that, we'll know just what magic is in the tablet.

Given the "Hazmat, oxidizer" label, I think I'd rather have salt. Although, since my native waters were quietly converted to a huge NDZ, I'm also considering "Just mail this to my state senator". (They forgot to fund pumpout stations, some joker thinks sailboats can conveniently make a 20-40 mile round trip whenever the potty needs pumping.)
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Old 13-04-2012, 20:09   #35
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Re: Type I MSD

Raritan does publish the MSDS for the PuraSan "tablet:"
http://www.raritaneng.com/pdf_files/.../L166v0703.pdf
The active ingredient is calcium hypochlorite.

Given the "Hazmat, oxidizer" label, I think I'd rather have salt.

In which case, you'd want the ElectroScan instead of a PuraSan.

I find it ludicrous that the PuraSan tablet--dry, in a sealed cartridge--must be shipped HAZMAT, but SeaLand TDX--a liquid in gallon jugs in which the active ingredient is formaldehyde--doesn't. A spill must be treated as HAZMAT event, but they don't publish that!

(They forgot to fund pumpout stations, some joker thinks sailboats can conveniently make a 20-40 mile round trip whenever the potty needs pumping.)

Which explains why more tanks are illegally dumped than are pumped out.
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Old 13-04-2012, 20:21   #36
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Re: Type I MSD

I probably couldn't find the MSDS because it says "SANURIL" and since none of the sales or tech references to the tablets use that name--it doesn't exist, so to speak. Look for it as a "Purasan tablet MSDS" or anythign similar, you get zero hits. Formaldehyde is by comparison a common industrial chemical but strong oxidizers can be big surprises. At least formaldehyde has a memorable smell, and doesn't start fires.

Much as I don't like the idea of literally lighting a flame under my butt...the way they keep setting the bar higher makes me think an incinolet may soon be the only way to go. No pun intended.

Yessir, officer, sit right down here, we'll show you how the magic works.<G>
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Old 13-04-2012, 20:42   #37
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Re: Type I MSD

Quote:
Originally Posted by peghall View Post
The Groco ThermoPure 2 can be a good choice for a large (40' +) trawler or power cruiser, but a price tag that starts at over $4,000 and power needs that require both 115v AC and DC puts it out of range for smaller vessels.

I suggest that you consider adding either a PuraSan or ElectroScan and the "hold 'n' treat" controls to your existing tank for price of less than half that much...and it only needs DC power. Check 'em here: Raritan holdntreat.pdf Raritan Purasan Raritan Electro Scan
Thanks Peg.

I have a 50 ft motor cruiser, 2 showers and heads and a top loading washer, hence the issue with a small holding tank. But the Groco prices are up to $5000 so I will definitely look at the Electro Scan alternative. The Sanctuary Cove boat show is in mid-May, so I'll hopefully find some units there to look at.
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Old 02-02-2013, 15:47   #38
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Re: Type I MSD

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I have an electrosan unit taken off my old Catalina 27 a year ago for sale.
Anybody interested? Low price and complete working unit (at least when I took it off)
I know that your offer is old, but is it still available? And if so, what are you asking for the unit?
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Old 02-02-2013, 15:59   #39
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Re: Type I MSD

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Thanks Peg.

I have a 50 ft motor cruiser, 2 showers and heads and a top loading washer, hence the issue with a small holding tank. But the Groco prices are up to $5000 so I will definitely look at the Electro Scan alternative. The Sanctuary Cove boat show is in mid-May, so I'll hopefully find some units there to look at.
Is it legal to discharge grey water overboard in your area? If it is only the head needs a holding tank.
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Old 02-02-2013, 16:34   #40
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I know that your offer is old, but is it still available? And if so, what are you asking for the unit?
Sorry, unit is gone a long time ago
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Old 03-02-2013, 07:37   #41
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Re: Type I MSD

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Sorry, unit is gone a long time ago
OK Thanks for the coomeback.
Rich
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