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Old 20-10-2011, 10:05   #31
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Re: The Ultimate Head ?

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Originally Posted by peghall View Post
I'm not aware of any video, but it's an interesting idea...wanna make one? We can upload it to U-tube.

Only one way to prove or disprove it: try it. And you don't need clear hose to do it...just a toilet that has a new joker valve and doesn't need rebuilding that discharges up and over and vented loop that's installed immediately after the toilet, no higher than 4' above the bowl. Remove the hose from the downward side...flush in the dry mode. I suggest you have a bucket under the loop, 'cuz all but a cupful or two should make it over the loop.

Sounds like fun - not.

My head has no loop. Goes straight up and horizontal about a foot or so to the tank. All above water line - Gemini 105Mc.

I can't access the tank to watch without tearing out stuff either.

Will just have to operate properly.
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Old 20-10-2011, 19:09   #32
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Re: The Ultimate Head ?

Don't know if I would use anything other than a Baby Blake. Built like a tank and a half.. I swear it could suck an inflated football down with little effort

Simple, durable, rebuildable.

Also found if you line the clean, dry bowl with TP before doing #2, you can use next to no water
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Old 20-10-2011, 20:14   #33
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Re: The Ultimate Head ?

Don't know if I would use anything other than a Baby Blake.

A great choice for anyone who has $6000 USD to spend for a marine toilet. But most people have to settle for the best toilet under $1000 USD.

Also found if you line the clean, dry bowl with TP before doing #2, you can use next to no water

Adding a couple of cupfuls of water to the bowl ahead of use works even better, cuz you need less water to rinse the poor and TP out of the bottom of the pump and the head discharge hose.
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Old 20-10-2011, 23:24   #34
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Re: The Ultimate Head ?

True we were lucky our boat came with the baby. but after using it..its worth its weight in gold (or bronze at least!). This sure is one system you want to not break down..and if it does.. need to be able to repair any breakdown with basic hand tools.

at least in the Baby, the bowl is left a lot cleaner after pump out with TP instead of a little (or a lot ) of water..far less manual cleaning (fun fun fun!) after pumping it clean.. No doubt your mileage will vary..head to head. Maybe it is the shape of the bowl, as 'it' hits pretty high on the bowl on the baby, not in the center where the water would be..you would almost have to fill the bowl for any water to be any help..at least on our boat.
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Old 21-10-2011, 12:07   #35
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Re: The Ultimate Head?

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"Another option is to just replace the pump on your Jabsco toilet every couple of years. You can buy a complete pump assembly for about sixty bucks..."

Penny wise, pound foolish IMO. I know a guy on another board who's put close to $1000 into replacement pumps for a $100 toilet. For about $250 he could have replaced his Jabsco toilet ONCE with a toilet that'll last at least 20 years if you just keep it lubricated and rebuild it every 5-6 years about $50
I just purchased a Jabsco to replace my old one (I believe a Wilcox). The old one still works but needs to be lubricated every few flushes. As I can't afford at this time to replace it with a better quality make, I wonder if I should just stay with the one I have and return the Jabsco with a planned upgrade in the future. What is that makes the Jabsco inferior?

We only use the boat about 4 weeks per year.
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Old 21-10-2011, 13:24   #36
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Re: The Ultimate Head?

What is that makes the Jabsco inferior?

The short answer is, "disposable" is more profitable than durable.

Marine toilets, unlike household toilets, have moving parts that do require at least a little maintenance and occasional (every 5-6 years) replacement of some parts. However in recent years toilet mfrs that are divisions of large diversified companies have been steadily moving away from quality and durability and toward "disposable" equipment.

Someone at Jabso even admitted to me that their manual toilets are made to be "disposable"...that the service kits are overpriced because there's no profit in repair parts, but there is in complete pumps. They're so flimsy and failure prone that an amazing number of people just replace the pump every year as "PREVENTIVE" maintenance (There's a guy on a sailboat list who's done that every year for 10 years. I've kidded him about being the only person I know who's put $1000 into maintaining a $100 toilet!). Jabsco isn't alone...Shortly after Thetford bought Wilcox-Crittenden, they discontinued W-C the Skipper and the Imperial because there isn't enough market for a $1000 MANUAL bronze "throne" built to last for at least 100 years and not enough profit in repair parts to make it profitable even to continue making the HeadMate...so they discontinued the whole W-C product line at the end of '08 for that reason. And we've seen the Tecma line deteriorate in quality since it was acquired by Thetford.

The only US toilet mfrs left except for Jabsco are Raritan and Groco, both of whom are still small family owned companies to quality and durability still matters.
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Old 21-10-2011, 14:41   #37
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Re: The Ultimate Head ?

Thanks Peggy. Then the question I need to answer is if I should replace the Wilcox now or wait. The main reason I am replacing it now is because I replaced some of the hoses and thought it might be best to replace the whole system at the same time. As far as I know, the w/c is original which means it is 30 years old but as I noted, it still works (although is sometimes hard to pump unless we lube it).

Do you know if the mounting holes on the Jabsco match those of the Raritan or Groco? I have heard that I will be faced with drilling new holes to go from Wilcox to Jabsco.
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Old 21-10-2011, 20:33   #38
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Re: The Ultimate Head ?

If I were you, I'd keep lubricating till you can afford to replace with a good toilet.
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Old 23-10-2011, 12:38   #39
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Re: The Ultimate Head ?

Peghall,

On thinking back I realize you are right (I didn't really disbelieve you - I know your nick name) as last weekend I decided my joker valve was not up to snuff and decided to change it.

Of course this was after a good BM and I needed rapid pumps to empty the bowl. I did 15 of those and flushed with fresh water and pumped in the dry mode for a bit longer too.

When I removed the connection there was only a bit of clear water to soak one paper towel.

I suppose it is nice sometimes to not know exactly how and why something works (my preference) but to just be happy that it does work!

If it didn't that job would have been stinky like I have heard about.

Thanks for all your help, to me and others, over the years.
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Old 23-10-2011, 15:07   #40
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Re: The Ultimate Head ?

Thanks for the kind words...and one more tip: slower more deliberate pumping moves bowl contents more efficiently than short rapid pumping...and some water added to the bowl ahead of solids leaves a cleaner bowl with a lot less flush water needed.
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Old 23-10-2011, 17:20   #41
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Re: The Ultimate Head ?

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Originally Posted by peghall View Post
Thanks for the kind words...and one more tip: slower more deliberate pumping moves bowl contents more efficiently than short rapid pumping...and some water added to the bowl ahead of solids leaves a cleaner bowl with a lot less flush water needed.
Right.

My rapid pumps are when the joker is not working. Slow moves nothing. Quick jerks move stuff and tell me it is time for a new joker.

Now it is nice and slow and works well again.
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