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Old 18-10-2011, 07:42   #16
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Re: The Ultimate Head?

Adding water to the bowl (use a cup from the sink) ahead of solids leaves the bowl a LOT cleaner, requiring much less flush water.
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Old 18-10-2011, 07:54   #17
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Re: The Ultimate Head?

Another option is to just replace the pump on your Jabsco toilet every couple of years. You can buy a complete pump assembly for about sixty bucks...

Penny wise, pound foolish IMO. I know a guy on another board who's put close to $1000 into replacement pumps for a $100 toilet. For about $250 he could have replaced his Jabsco toilet ONCE with a toilet that'll last at least 20 years if you just keep it lubricated and rebuild it every 5-6 years about $50.

The Groco Model K is a wonderful bronze "throne," but it has one fatal flaw:
After +/- about 15 years, depending on the amount of use it gets, it begins to recirculate bowl contents when the piston bore wears beyond spec and the rings allow pressure to create "blow by." And it costs more to replace the housing than to replace the whole toilet with a PH II or comparable high quality manual.

The rebuild kit will not solve this problem
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Old 19-10-2011, 11:30   #18
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Re: The Ultimate Head ?

Once you go Lavac you never go back

SV Estrellita 5.10b: The Great Toilet Crisis: Installing our Lavac
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Old 19-10-2011, 11:51   #19
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Re: The Ultimate Head ?

Thanks Livia! Are you in Mexico yet?

As far as the Lavac, oddly the vessel was originally equipped with 3 (one additional in the forecastle for crew) but some PO removed all of them.

How much water do they use?
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Old 19-10-2011, 12:11   #20
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Re: The Ultimate Head ?

Leaving Ensenada today!

I can't remember the specs on the Whale bilge pump but that is what they are running. They use "a lot". (We have the manual version.)
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Old 19-10-2011, 12:31   #21
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Are you planing on using fresh water to flush the head
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Old 19-10-2011, 13:26   #22
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Re: The Ultimate Head ?

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Are you planing on using fresh water to flush the head
No, I am trying to avoid filling the holding tank with excess water.
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Old 19-10-2011, 14:11   #23
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Re: The Ultimate Head ?

You another good thing about having a LAVAC is in an a emergency situation and I do mean "emergency" it could function as an additional manual bilge pump by removing the hose from the bowl and slapping an extension hose onto it. IMO you can never have too many bilge pumps on board when you need them. Just sayin'.
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Old 19-10-2011, 14:14   #24
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Re: The Ultimate Head ?

That's fairly easy to accomplish with any manual toilet, although it may require some minor plumbing mods and a new joker valve annually: learn to use the dry mode to do more than just empty the last of the water in the bowl.

Any manual toilet that's working anywhere near factory spec can move bowl contents up to 6 linear feet or 4 vertical feet in the dry mode.

So if your toilet is within 6' of the tank, add a cupful of water to the bowl ahead of solids, then use the dry mode to flush the bowl contents to the tank...switch to the wet mode only long enough to rinse the bowl (which will be a LOT cleaner if you have put some water into it before use).

If your toilet is much more than 6' from the tank, or it's an uphill run all the way, install a loop that's just slightly higher than the tank inlet IMMEDIATELY after the toilet. That should make it downhill to the tank from the top of the loop...so you only have flush long enough--again, in the dry mode--to push the bowl contents over the loop...gravity will do the rest. Then rinse, switch back to dry as soon as you've pushed a quart or two over the loop.

If your system was so badly designed that you can't do any of that, just try to use dry mode more and wet mode less...maybe only once a day to rinse out the system.
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Old 19-10-2011, 14:27   #25
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Re: The Ultimate Head ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by peghall View Post
That's fairly easy to accomplish with any manual toilet, although it may require some minor plumbing mods and a new joker valve annually: learn to use the dry mode to do more than just empty the last of the water in the bowl.

Any manual toilet that's working anywhere near factory spec can move bowl contents up to 6 linear feet or 4 vertical feet in the dry mode.

So if your toilet is within 6' of the tank, add a cupful of water to the bowl ahead of solids, then use the dry mode to flush the bowl contents to the tank...switch to the wet mode only long enough to rinse the bowl (which will be a LOT cleaner if you have put some water into it before use).

If your toilet is much more than 6' from the tank, or it's an uphill run all the way, install a loop that's just slightly higher than the tank inlet IMMEDIATELY after the toilet. That should make it downhill to the tank from the top of the loop...so you only have flush long enough--again, in the dry mode--to push the bowl contents over the loop...gravity will do the rest. Then rinse, switch back to dry as soon as you've pushed a quart or two over the loop.

If your system was so badly designed that you can't do any of that, just try to use dry mode more and wet mode less...maybe only once a day to rinse out the system.
I don't understand how that works.

If in dry mode, it pushes all from the bowl and then starts pushing air. Once air starts passing the joker valve into the hose going up won't it blow past and up and leave liquid (and some solid parts) behind in the hose no matter what?
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Old 19-10-2011, 15:16   #26
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Re: The Ultimate Head ?

I wondered how long it would take for the first person to say:

If in dry mode, it pushes all from the bowl and then starts pushing air....

But that's not what happens IF the toilet is working to spec. "Cuz contrary to what everybody thinks, if the joker valve is in good condtion, the pump WILL push the bowl contents up to 6 linear or 4 vertical feet in the dry mode...THEN it starts to break up.

So it won't work if it has to push further than those distances, but will within 'em.

Nor will if work if the joker valve is worn and/or there's a buildup of sea water minerals on it. 'Cuz that would prevent it from sealing tightly on the upstroke of the piston...less vacuum is generated when you pump it. And without enough vacuum, you're right...it won't work...the pump will just push air. As the joker valve becomes more worn, there's less and less vacuum, till finally the bowl contents simply move up and down a bit, but don't go anywhere even in the wet mode.

But a toilet with a good joker valve that doesn't have to push bowl contents further than those distances CAN do it in the dry mode...honest!

As for any bits left in the line...I DID say you need to switch to the wet mode long enough to rinse it out!
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Old 19-10-2011, 16:39   #27
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Re: The Ultimate Head ?

heck I thought everyone pumped their bowls in the dry mode and THEN flushed it in wet mode, leave a little water in the bowl for later, and then leave the pump in dry afterwards
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Old 19-10-2011, 20:09   #28
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Re: The Ultimate Head ?

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heck I thought everyone pumped their bowls in the dry mode and THEN flushed it in wet mode, leave a little water in the bowl for later, and then leave the pump in dry afterwards
And that's just what most people do...pumping JUST long enough to move everything out of the bowl and into the head discharge line, and then leave it there to sit there and permeate and permeate the hose till the next flush moves it another couple of feet to sit and permeate...and then the next....
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Old 20-10-2011, 08:52   #29
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Re: The Ultimate Head ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by peghall View Post
I wondered how long it would take for the first person to say:

If in dry mode, it pushes all from the bowl and then starts pushing air....

But that's not what happens IF the toilet is working to spec. "Cuz contrary to what everybody thinks, if the joker valve is in good condtion, the pump WILL push the bowl contents up to 6 linear or 4 vertical feet in the dry mode...THEN it starts to break up.

I am happy to have given the opportunity.

OK, it works that way but I still do not understand how.

I just envision a vertical hose with liquid in it. A large pressure charge could throw the liquid up 4 feet before any fell back but I can't visualize that little pump doing it by putting a quarter liter of air in the line with each pump.

Is there a video with clear hose to see this phenomenon?

Not saying it does not happen. I just can't see it.
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Old 20-10-2011, 09:36   #30
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Re: The Ultimate Head ?

I'm not aware of any video, but it's an interesting idea...wanna make one? We can upload it to U-tube.

Only one way to prove or disprove it: try it. And you don't need clear hose to do it...just a toilet that has a new joker valve and doesn't need rebuilding that discharges up and over and vented loop that's installed immediately after the toilet, no higher than 4' above the bowl. Remove the hose from the downward side...flush in the dry mode. I suggest you have a bucket under the loop, 'cuz all but a cupful or two should make it over the loop.
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