The Joker Valve, It's Not Funny!

[Nikolina]

Okay the head in my boat is the macerator type, don't know the brand name. But I do know that the joker valve is the "flapper style" (the flapper is gone). The photo shows the small flange piece that connects to the discharge hose and what's left of the flapper style joker valve. I tried the newer tube style valve from jabsco and doesn't fit properly. Anyone know where I can find the correct joker valve? Or if there's another replacement part that will work? Can't hold it much longer.

P.S. just figured out how to post pictures, didn't think my first pic would be of toilet parts!

[skipmac]

My Grocco manual, non-macerator head has a flapper that looks like your photo AND a regular joker valve. Are you sure yours doesn't have both?

Regardless, the flapper in the photo looks very much like the flapper in my Grocco. Of course can't tell the dimensions from the photo but the shape, three hole flange, etc look the same.

Maybe post a photo of the head and someone will be able to identify the model. That I think is the easiest path to finding the right part.

[Nikolina]

Thanks Skipmac, I had the whole unit out earlier and had taken it apart. It's pretty simple in the parts department meaning there isn't a lot of them! That was the only valve in the system other than the ball valves for water in and waste out. The flange inside diameter is 1" so I think it's maybe smaller that the Grocco (web search). I'll try to get some pics for identification

[peghall]

That it has a flapper valve instead of a joker valve indicates it could be fairly old...'cuz most U.S. mfrs had switched to joker valves instead of flappers in the discharge of macerating electric toilets by the early '90s. If it is that old, the two most likely possibilities are a Raritan Crown Head Rairtan Crown Head Owners Manual or the Jabsco 37010 Jabsco 37010 owners manual

If it's neither of those, a photo is the best way to ID it...and what's needed is NOT a photo of the bowl--all bowls look alike--but a photo of the "lower unit"...everything below the bowl. If there's a cover on it, two photos--one with it on, one with it off.

Btw...if it's been at least 5 years since a "rebuild kit" has been put in it, I strongly recommend you do that, cuz it needs more than just a new flapper valve...'cuz unlike manual toilets, flapper/joker valves are not essential in macerating electric toilets. Only if it's clogged up would it interfere with flushing. If you're having problem flushing it--and I suspect you are, cuz it's unlikely you'd have removed the discharge fitting just out of curiosity--there are other parts in the toilet that would be the culprit...or, the missing "flap" may be hung up in the plumbing...or sea water mineral buildup in the discharge hose may have reduced the diameter of it enough to create a blockage. So the bottom line: we need to trouble-shoot it to know what's causing problems.

Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

[Nikolina]

Thank you Peg,

That's is correct the boat is 1963, but I'm sure the head is not that old, but old none the less. Two of the issues I was having with the head 1: the (electric motor) macerator itself was hard to turn, and not wanting to work after sitting for the winter. It was taken apart, cleaned and both ends of the motor were lightly oiled. It turns much freer and works better. 2: after flushing, the bowl would fill up fairly quickly, water coming back from the discharge. That would be the flapper valve, and of course after dis-assembly found the damaged piece.

So I have two more questions, 1: The links you sent for the Raritan and the Jabsco both show the tubular style joker valve. Do they still make the flapper style or is there a crossover? 2: Being an older head, at what point should I throw it out and replace it with something new? It's worked pretty well in the past with minor issues of maintenance but I can see where parts might not be interchangeable. Or the cost of replacement parts are equal to a new head!

I'll take more pictures this weekend for better identification. Thanks

[peghall]

The first electric macerating toilet was introduced in the late '60s, so yours can't quite be original, but it has to be at least 30 years old because the current version of the Raritan Crown Head was introduced in the late '80s, so it's at least that old...I'm not sure whether they replaced the flapper valve with a joker valve in the previous version (DD). If it is a Crown Head, you should find a plate on the base housing (unless a PO removed it), telling you which model it is.

Or it could be a Jabsco 37010...you should be able to recognize it from the photos. I don't have literature showing when a flapper valve was replaced in it, but yours ain't no "spring chicken" nor matte which it is.

IMO you'd be smart to replace the whole lower unit with the SeaEra "conversion" SeaEra Conversion Kit for a several reasons: 1) The Crown draws 35 amps...the SeaEra draws 15. 2) The Crown needs 1-3 gallons of flush water...the SeaEra only needs 2 liters. 3)The Crown makes enough noise to wake the dead! The SeaEra isn't exactly quiet (no sea water electric toilet is), but it's a LOT quieter than the Crown! The SeaEra conversion is about $400--which ain't cheap!--but Practical Sailor rated the SeaEra the best "budget" electric macerating toilet a couple of years ago--and a 30+ yr old toilet motor and pump assembly doesn't have a lot a trouble-free life left in it...parts that aren't in the repair kit become worn, and that can not only get expensive, but nothing EVER fails when it's convenient to fix it! So what to do--whether to replace now or wait for the next problem--depends on what your budget can stand...but I wouldn't put ANY more money into this one.

As for the backflow...that may not only be due to a failed flapper valve...we may be able to correct that with a little modification in how the discharge hose is routed, or something in the system could be pushing back.

[Nikolina]

Peg,

So here's a picture of the head at least the lower unit. I still don't know what it is. I'm taking your advice and will be replacing the whole thing. Which leads me to my last question electric verses manual? One thing I don't like about the electric is "the waking of the dead" as you put it. In a quiet anchorage I'm pretty sure everyone else at anchor knows what your doing! Is there any big advantages one has over the other.

Thanks I appreciate your expert opinion.

P.S.It's probably in your book, which I have, but for the life of me cannot find!
P.S.S. If I we're to go with a manual, which one

[HopCar]

I thought I'd recognize it when you posted the picture but I don't. My best guess is a Jabsco knock off.

At any rate Peggie's advice on going with the Sea Era conversion kit is good. It will be quieter than your current toilet. A lot of the noise from your toilet comes from the rubber impeller in your pump. The Sea Era uses a quieter diaphragm pump.
Raritan Sea Era Conversion Kit - 16LI012

It will be quieter still if you switch to a fresh water flush version.

[Sailmonkey]

Galley maid?

Only guess I've got, but the pump doesn't look right.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[peghall]

It's not any version of the Raritan Crown Head, so based on its age, it has to be an early Jabsco 37010...or maybe a knock-off, but I don't think there were any knock-offs that early.

Whether to go with manual or electric depends on whether you routinely have landlubber guests aboard who'd be less likely to create a problem if all they have to do to flush is push a button. You obviously have the power resources...a new one will need a lot less. Electric also requires very little maintenance...manual toilets must be kept well lubricated and have moving parts that require regular replacement. However there's not that much difference in the price Raritan PH SuperFlush Raritan PH SuperFlush (manual) and the SeaEra conversion (electric). As HopCar already mentioned, the SeaEra is a lot quieter than what you have now because the intake pump is a diaphragm pump (discharge pump is still an impeller) and it's the intake pump that makes most of noise in a sea water toilet. So decide what'll work best for you and ask HopCar for a quote....he'll have the best price.

[pwmullins]

I have 2 Sea Era heads from Raritan and I had to replace a motor on one of them. There's quite a bit of difference in the volume in the newer one. The dead are still asleep when we use that one.

[a64pilot]

While I do not have near the experience Peggie does or even Hopcar.
But I can't figure out why anyone would want electric and why not use fresh water to flush? Of course it is your drinking water your flushing down the toilet, so you had better be sure you have an ample supply.

If your replacing the whole thing, and IF your not rationing fresh water now, having fresh water flush keeps the thing a whole lot cleaner and no odors at all, ever, and if your in a dirty water anchorage, no nasty looking water in the bowl ever either.

On edit, keep the electric if you like, but at least consider fresh water flush, it has made a lot of difference for us.

[pwmullins]

I converted my heads to fresh water about 5 yrs. ago, with a twist. Bought a splitter valve for a hose and did a reverse installation on my cold water line I tapped from the sink with one leg, then hooked up the other leg to the raw water hose intake. When I have enough water in my 2 ea. 100 gal. tanks, I use fresh water, when not, I change it to raw water flush. It cuts down the smell and the fresh water doesn't clog the hose for the holding tank or overboard if offshore. The only catch is that you have to install inline a hydro solenoid, purchased from West Marine or an industrial supply, to keep the water stopped when not flushing the fresh water. For what it's worth.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

But I can't figure out why anyone would want electric and why not use fresh water to flush?

WE have electric macerating, fresh water flush. The electric part is almost a no-brainer for us: no training required for visiting 'lubbers.

It was almost the same with our previous electric vacuflush, although we took more care to caution visitors against over-papering.

-Chris

[peghall]

But I can't figure out why anyone would want electric and why not use fresh water to flush? Of course it is your drinking water your flushing down the toilet, so you had better be sure you have an ample supply.

There's a nice INEXPENSIVE compromise that lets you have it both ways: reroute the he head inlet line to tee it into the head sink drain line. The tee needs to be below the waterline just ahead of the seacock...flush with sea water most of the time...rinse the sea water out of the whole system--inlet line, pump, channel in the rim of bowl by simply closing the seacock, filling the sink with clean fresh water, and flushing the toilet. Because the seacock is closed, the toilet will pull the water out of the sink. If your head sink drains above waterline, reverse the connection...reroute the sink drain to tee into the head inlet line. Doesn't matter whether the toilet is manual or electric, although if an electric that has an impeller inlet pump, you don't want to flush long enough for the impeller to run dry.

However, this does require that the toilet and head sink be on the same side of keel.