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Old 23-11-2012, 16:00   #91
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Re: The Head To End All Heads

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Originally Posted by GaryMayo View Post
My first education into traveling toilets was in my 44' toy hauler. The restroom is about phone booth sized, and Clark Kent would be clostsrphobic. In the middle of the grand room, was a plastic toilet, that broke the first time I sat on it. Bowl started to buckle.

First time I saw a porcelain RV loo, I purchased it. Still little better, because of the silly room it was in, designed for an anorexic 8 year old.


I had a spare house toilet in my shop, left over from a bathroom remodel job. The next trip, I sat that in a corner of the toy hauler garage, and covered it in plastic.

First time I needed to create some fertilizer on the trip, I excused myself, and locked myself in the garage. I uncovered my toilet, and got a kitchen garbage bag, placing it inside the toilet, and lowered the seat.

Now that was more like it. Largest room on the trailer, outfitted with everything to make a dump, a great (& comfortable) one.

I tied a knot in the sack, a simple one, very tight, then slipped the bag inside out, tied a second knot. Double bagged, with one bag! Perfect. Then I walked the warm bundle to the dumpster and it ended up next to a diaper. How fitting!

That was years ago, and every trip, my wife and guests have their restroom, and I have mine that no-one knows about (till now)

Last fall, I got back into sailing. First sailboat had a used portapotty. Threw it away and just never used anything in the way of a toilet on the mac 25. Now I have a larger sailboat, and again, I threw away the old disgusting plastic portapotty. It was looking past its prime.

My brain started thinking, and I figured, why not use what worked so well for me in my RV?

I found a good used land toilet. Removed the back tank, and removed everything from the tank.

Then I poured plaster paris in the main basin drain in the bottom of the toilet. Let cure. Then took white silicone, and made a waterproof covering over the plaster and on to the porcelain just enough to make the bowl water tight. Did the same thing to the back tank. Back tank is now empty with a flush handle that is for looks only.

Mount the bowl to the floor, mount the back tank to the wall above the bowl. Looks like a traditional toilet in a house.

Mount a kitchen paper towel rack, that in this case holds a roll of garbage bags, close to the toilet. Place a garbage bag in the toilet, and if you wish, you can also protect the toilet seat with the bag. Try different ways till you get a fit/function you like. A pet pee pad or diaper, can be placed in the garbage bag for absorbentsy.

Once used, the bag can be double knotted and placed in the back tank, inside another garbage bag, waiting to be properly disposed of.

Each flush costs less than a quarter if you use absorbent pads.

No water
No plumbing
No mess
No pumpout
No smell
No bugs
No toilet seat to clean
No clogged toilet
No hassles
No holding tank to leak
No worries

Total cost of this with a new toilet, less than $150. Total cost with scrounged used toilet, less than $50 including bags and pee pads.

What looks better, popping your head in a yacht head, a portapotty, a complicated marine head that is sometimes hard to figure out, and most boats have rules of usage, that will get you tossed off the boat, if you do not follow the rules, or a 100% fresh and clean simple to use wag bag porcelain toilet with simple instructions?

I will also be installing a second unit, under a berth in the aft cabin, for me. Yep, cannot comfortably fit in the head of my sailboat, any better than I can fit in the RV. Sucks being a giant sometimes.

I see threads in boat forums, debating the best head to use, and frankly, I looked at lots of ideas, and all of them stunk (pardon the pun) for one or more reasons. Cost, install headaches, pumpout hastles, odors.

The best solution for me, was kiss. Keep it simple simple.

Attachment 49926
Now I love my compost toilet even better.....

Reiner
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Old 23-11-2012, 16:38   #92
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Re: The Head To End All Heads

Similar project in Africa made the news last week. The problem there is that it takes more power to generate electricity, than the electrical output from it. Net energy loss. No idea if NTU is using the same chemistry, or if they've done their math.
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Old 23-11-2012, 19:52   #93
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Re: The Head To End All Heads

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You never throw cups in the trash at McDonald's? You do not generate waste in trash bags that you toss in trash cans?
I try not to poop in it first...
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Old 23-11-2012, 20:30   #94
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Re: The Head To End All Heads

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Similar project in Africa made the news last week. The problem there is that it takes more power to generate electricity, than the electrical output from it. Net energy loss. No idea if NTU is using the same chemistry, or if they've done their math.
What???

There are dairy farms in the US totally self sufficient in power due to the biogas used to power their system.

I don't know about Africa, but it has been proven to work here, at least with cattle.

James L
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Old 23-11-2012, 20:32   #95
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Originally Posted by propellanttech

What???

There are dairy farms in the US totally self sufficient in power due to the biogas used to power their system.

I don't know about Africa, but it has been proven to work here, at least with cattle.

James L
Cattle produce more methane than humans.
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Old 23-11-2012, 20:58   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opie91

I try not to poop in it first...
Lololololol
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Old 23-11-2012, 21:41   #97
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I just spent a few minutes pooring over the threads / posts in the plumbing forum, on heads. Interesting stuff. It is almost like there are three things this site should avoid at all cost, politics, religion, toilets.

Seriously, the reason politics and religion are banned, is because everyone has already decided where they stand, and folks make everyone miserable, trying to change their minds on stuff, they never change no matter what. Toilets seem to run (pun intended) along those same lines. Post after post, with folks saying how great their toilet works, only to have someone post the exact same thing about their toilet, and pretty much ignoring everyone else.

I could not understand why I was under fire, for making a porcelain wag bag toilet, until I looked and saw, everyone is misunderstood, unless you find another person that uses your exact same toilet, then it is like meeting an old friend from HS. Lol

Even the compost people of different brands, do not really see eye to eye (pun intended) on everything.

What it all boils down to, is everyone is trying to justify in their own mind their choice for a poo processor. It is like, """My toilet can beat up your toilet"""

Then I post about a simple, easy to use, clean, efficient, impossible to break, never needs maintenance, less than 25 cents to use, almost zero cost to install, never freezes in winter, never cloggs up, never needs pumped out, never stinks, no through hulls, no through walls, attractive, anyone can use it, tampons OK, diapers OK, (who else has a toilet that can flush a whole diaper? ), and instantly, everyone that has not agreeded on the single perfect toilet, can all agree, this toilet certainly is not a good idea.

To support my idea, is to some degree, an undermining of your more complex, more expensive, more maintenance, more odors, more everything toilet.

My idea is as simple as it gets, unless you are squatting in the forest, and walking away.

I do think my toilet would work best for occasional use, with no long term storage.

I am always within a few minutes of toilet facilities at my lake, and using a toilet on my boat is a pretty rare event.
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Old 23-11-2012, 21:57   #98
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Re: The Head To End All Heads

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I do think my toilet would work best for occasional use, with no long term storage.


Once again here is where your problem lies. Almost no one on this forum is trying to set up their head for "occasional use". The reason is because this is Cruisers Forum, not day sailors forum. Anyone who is cruising or intends to cruise by definition will need to deal with providing facilities for an extended period of time, and probably for multiple people as well. Your solution is great for someone in your situation, the problem is that no one else on this forum is in the same situation as you. Therefore no one here thinks its a good solution. Because it's not for them.
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Old 23-11-2012, 21:59   #99
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I fail to see how your idea is "simple." You claim to have used it three times, but put an enormous time investment in upfront. The system is unwieldy for consistent use. You could have just used bags over the existing porta potty or head, then it may have been considered simple, if still unpractical for long term use. Heck, you could just use wag bags, as designed, to be squatted over. The Chinese claim that this puts the body in the ideal position for elimination.

This may have been a fun project, even a novelty head, but not simple.
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Old 23-11-2012, 22:20   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenhand
I fail to see how your idea is "simple." You claim to have used it three times,...............

This may have been a fun project, even a novelty head, but not simple.
The project was very simple, just you fail to simply understand it. Lol

Other side of the coin, tell me what toilet you have, plumbing involved, maintaince to operate. Your system was easier to build/ install than mine? Great, what is it, ?

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Old 24-11-2012, 07:53   #101
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Re: The Head To End All Heads

Me craps directly into me freezer - and when frozen I mail it to folks randomly picked from thin air.

On the boat I intend to do the same.
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Old 24-11-2012, 09:31   #102
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Re: The Head To End All Heads

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....Seriously, the reason politics and religion are banned, is because everyone has already decided where they stand, and folks make everyone miserable, trying to change their minds on stuff, they never change no matter what. Toilets seem to run (pun intended) along those same lines. Post after post, with folks saying how great their toilet works, only to have someone post the exact same thing about their toilet, and pretty much ignoring everyone else. ....
One thing I've found is that there are a lot more "post readers" than "posters" on these boards. If you have an idea post it. Of course many will post why their idea is better or what is wrong with yours but there are some out there that will say "hey that might work for me" and never post at all. If it works for them they will be happy that you posted and still will probably never say a word. There will be a few that will though and maybe not post publicly but send you and e-mail or PM. They are the ones that make it worth your time to document and post what you have done. If these people would of been discouraged then Ruth and I would still be fumbling around with a boat and not using it.

Wag bags are a good example. When I first heard of them I couldn't believe someone was actually using something like that and had serious doubts about any benefits.

If they wouldn't of posted then a number of our trips would of been either impossible or very hard to undertake logistics wise. Of course we haven't been cruisers by the definition of some on here as we haven't crossed oceans, but we have put out for a month on lakes in Idaho and Canada where pumpout facilities were either absent or hard to find and dumping in the lake would not of been acceptable.

We also cruised, by our definition, 100 miles up Lake Powell in Utah were there are no dump stations except for a couple floating heads in that stretch. Then there was 400 miles down Florida's west coast and over to the Keys and north where again you just don't find pump-outs in the 10,000 Islands or the Everglades or for that matter about any place else if you anchor in remote locations day after day.

All of this is with a 26 foot 3000# boat and we were able to carry our solid waste for 2 months in two 5 gallon buckets and have...



...a comfortable head to sit on the whole time. One of Ruth's favorite mods on the boat. Is this for everyone? Of course not, but if you have a small boat it can be a very good solution and I think that there are a few on here that don't cross oceans in large boats but still consider themselves cruisers.

On the Endeavour we have a "normal" marine head with a new holding tank. We plan on using it, but if we find ourselves in a situation where it is full and we can't legally discharge it or have it pumped we will have Double Doodie bags (Wag Bags) on board and use them. We used them when we bought the boat and were on her for 5 days moving her and the head was questionable. We will use them the last time we legally dump 3 miles out and then spend a couple days taking the boat to the yard for storage until we return.

Do they smell when you are using them? Yes but put some of the marine head stuff from WM in and that helps and the head doesn't smell at all once the lid goes back on. I think that if we are anchored say in the Bahamas and the tank is full the least we can do for those near us is use the bags for a few days and not dump like some do on the tide.

For those few that are interested in using the bags there is more on our site here...

08-09 Sailing Lake Powell page 16

...and Gary keep posting. Even if no one copies you exactly the thread has exposed some to different solutions. I'm looking myself at one of the heads that was mentioned for use possibly in the Endeavour but the bags are the ticket for the Mac,

Sum
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Old 24-11-2012, 11:07   #103
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Re: The Head To End All Heads

Thank you Sum,-- Gary, case dismissed
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Old 24-11-2012, 15:59   #104
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Re: The Head To End All Heads

Is that a crapper in the cockpit?! LOL! It does make Gary's solution seem ingenious.
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Old 24-11-2012, 16:56   #105
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Re: The Head To End All Heads

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Is that a crapper in the cockpit?! LOL! It does make Gary's solution seem ingenious.
No it is in the cabin on the starboard side....



... under the settee on the right side of the picture above. Remember this is a small trailered boat and only the two of us use it. There was a head with a porta-pottie ahead of the bulkhead where the sink is, but it was very confining and then the V-berth was not usable with my 6'-1" height. Also going 4-5 days on a porta-pottie is a stretch and then what do you do?

Moving the head allowed allowed us ...



.... to make the V-berth longer and usable and also gave us room for our cloths and other storage on the sides and at the head of the V-berth. Best thing we did to the boat to make it into a boat you can cruise on about as long as you want. We can easily now be out for over a month without needing to resupply or get ice, water, fuel, or visit a dump station.

Almost all of our mods to the Mac are here...

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sum...gor-index.html

We are pretty much trying to do the same with the Endeavour except on a larger scale,

Sum
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