Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 30-11-2012, 09:55   #31
Registered User
 
Kohanadiver's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Live aboard full time & cruise east coast & Bahamas
Boat: Fountained Pajot, Antigua, 37', Catamaran
Posts: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
look it up on line, I think It has an adaptor for that. Not sure I like using those small cannisters indoors though. The units are meant for camping , so you can just hang it outside your travel trailer or on a tree etc.
I have contacted them and received following:


Support Specialist , Nov 30 11:34 am (EST):
Hello,

A propane hose that comes with the L5 comes with a standard grill connector. Eccotemp's recommends a standard 20lb propane tank.

Thank You

Mike Mitchell
Customer Support Specialist
Eccotemp Systems, LLC.
315A Industrial Rd
Summerville, SC 29483
866-356-1992 ext. 308 Office
843-875-4230 Fax
__________________

__________________
Kohanadiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-11-2012, 10:12   #32
Registered User
 
Kohanadiver's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Live aboard full time & cruise east coast & Bahamas
Boat: Fountained Pajot, Antigua, 37', Catamaran
Posts: 15
Also plan to use it outside, I am trying to figure out if I am going to plumb it in to the propane system. I had a Zodi camp shower heater and it was effective and used the same propane (small) bottles that usually lasted about 10 to 15 showers (for the Admiral). I am hoping to do the same with the L5. Appreciate any advice
__________________

__________________
Kohanadiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-11-2012, 10:19   #33
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 59
Re: Tankless Propane Water Heater?

Are the heaters being discussed here ABYC approved? Just curious what the impact could be on any future insurance claim or marine survey?
__________________
Jake Tanley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-11-2012, 10:32   #34
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,363
Re: Tankless Propane Water Heater?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kohanadiver View Post
Also plan to use it outside, I am trying to figure out if I am going to plumb it in to the propane system. I had a Zodi camp shower heater and it was effective and used the same propane (small) bottles that usually lasted about 10 to 15 showers (for the Admiral). I am hoping to do the same with the L5. Appreciate any advice
I saw a really small propane tank at Ace Hardware the other day, never seen one that small. I would say it was no more than a foot total height. Maybe 3 lb or so volume.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-11-2012, 10:43   #35
Marine Service Provider
 
Maine Sail's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maine
Boat: CS-36T - Cupecoy
Posts: 3,060
Re: Tankless Propane Water Heater?

Quote:
Originally Posted by svtrio View Post
I used a VENTED Paloma tankless water heater for many years, and I have one new in the box (no longer available) that I will install during the next few months as I near the end of an extensive refit/rebuild.

Anyway as for the Excel, their Web site clearly states:

Perfect for Sailboats and Cabin Cruisers with active ventilation systems in place. For More info on adequate ventilation practices for boats , RV's and mobile homes please link to: West Marine Boat Parts, Boat Accessories, Sailing Gear and Boating Apparel In West Advisor use the Searchword: Ventilation

Living aboard and cruising with propane provided some welcome "home" comforts, but I made ventilation a top priority (I used a propane stove too); I wouldn't consider using a propane device without substantial ventilation. Moreover, being an organic fuel, unvented propane soils interior surfaces.

Roger
Guys please be aware that companies like Excel are PURPOSELY misleading customers. None of these "vent free" water heaters meet the minimum safety standards for installation on boats in the USA under ABYC, NFPA 302 or NMMA.

ABYC:

26.5.10 Unattended appliances shall incorporate a room sealed combustion system.

ABYC Definitions:

Definitions:

Unattended Appliance -
appliances intended to function without frequent attention by an operator, and that may cycle on and off automatically, such as refrigerators, thermostatically controlled cabin heaters, and water heaters.

Room Sealed Combustion System -
a combustion system in which incoming air, the combustion chamber, and the outgoing products of combustion are sealed from the boat interior.



26.5.10 Unattended appliances shall incorporate a room sealed combustion system.

This means that the unit must be vented and also must take combustion air from outside the boat in a sealed combustion manner, meaning exhaust vents out side the vessel and intake air also comes from out side the vessel. Usually a dual wall vent pipe is used with make up air coming in around the out side of the inner vent pipe to also help keep it cool though some appliances use a two vent system..

A water heater meets the ABYC definition of an "unattended appliance" a galley stove is an "attended appliance".

Just because a manufacturer makes "claims" does not mean they are legitimate claims or in the slightest bit true if you want to do things to current and accepted safety standards or to have a vessel that could pass an insurance survey.

The Excel or any other "vent free" water heaters do not meet these requirements.. Use at your own risk and please check with your insurer before installing one..

I have had to remove "vent free" water heaters on boats that failed to pass an insurance survey.

If a surveyor in the USA passes a boat with a "vent free water heater" they are simply a poor surveyor and simply not doing their job.

One owner with a fairly new vent free water heater was extremely PISSED OFF that they bought a product that purposely mislead them...
__________________
Marine How To Articles
Maine Sail is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 30-11-2012, 10:47   #36
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,363
Re: Tankless Propane Water Heater?

Yeah, it's been discussed many times. In fact your propane stove has little or no safety devices on it. Or a Force 10 propane cabin heater has nothing on it. The water heaters do. But you're right... not ABYC approved!
All with the caveat: "you have to be smarter than the things you install!"
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-11-2012, 11:38   #37
Marine Service Provider
 
Maine Sail's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maine
Boat: CS-36T - Cupecoy
Posts: 3,060
Re: Tankless Propane Water Heater?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Yeah, it's been discussed many times. In fact your propane stove has little or no safety devices on it. Or a Force 10 propane cabin heater has nothing on it. The water heaters do. But you're right... not ABYC approved!
All with the caveat: "you have to be smarter than the things you install!"
Actually our stove/oven does meet the standards because it is considered an "attended appliance". We actually had a Force 10 on the boat when we bought it and it was PROMPTLY disconnected from the LPG system. I later removed it entirely.. You could not pay me to have one of those on my boat..

If anyone is comfortable with Force 10 you can buy a used one from me...
__________________
Marine How To Articles
Maine Sail is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 30-11-2012, 11:41   #38
Registered User
 
Dulcesuenos's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Florida Keys, Bahamas Bound
Boat: 38' French Cat
Posts: 2,828
Images: 4
Our last cat had one mounted in the bow locker it did have a vent ti the outside. We looked at a gemini that had it's tankless water heater in the head out if the way non vented
I guess this was considered an " attended" appliance?
__________________
Dulcesuenos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-11-2012, 12:05   #39
Marine Service Provider
 
Maine Sail's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maine
Boat: CS-36T - Cupecoy
Posts: 3,060
Re: Tankless Propane Water Heater?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos View Post
Our last cat had one mounted in the bow locker it did have a vent ti the outside. We looked at a gemini that had it's tankless water heater in the head out if the way non vented
I guess this was considered an " attended" appliance?

Water heaters are not considered "attended" appliances under the ABYC standards. Stoves/ranges are but not water heaters...



ABYC Definition:

Unattended Appliance -
appliances intended to function without frequent attention by an operator, and that may cycle on and off automatically, such as refrigerators, thermostatically controlled cabin heaters, and water heaters.
__________________
Marine How To Articles
Maine Sail is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 30-11-2012, 12:13   #40
Marine Service Provider
 
boatpoker's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 2,593
Re: Tankless Propane Water Heater?

Quote:
Originally Posted by svtrio View Post
I used a VENTED Paloma tankless water heater for many years, and I have one new in the box (no longer available) that I will install during the next few months as I near the end of an extensive refit/rebuild.

Anyway as for the Excel, their Web site clearly states:

Perfect for Sailboats and Cabin Cruisers with active ventilation systems in place. For More info on adequate ventilation practices for boats , RV's and mobile homes please link to: West Marine Boat Parts, Boat Accessories, Sailing Gear and Boating Apparel In West Advisor use the Searchword: Ventilation

Living aboard and cruising with propane provided some welcome "home" comforts, but I made ventilation a top priority (I used a propane stove too); I wouldn't consider using a propane device without substantial ventilation. Moreover, being an organic fuel, unvented propane soils interior surfaces.

Roger
The Paloma manual clearly states "Do Not Install in a Boat"
__________________
That hysterical laughter you hear as you sail a way in your "new" boat ..... is the seller.
boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-11-2012, 12:18   #41
Marine Service Provider
 
boatpoker's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 2,593
Re: Tankless Propane Water Heater?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
Water heaters are not considered "attended" appliances under the ABYC standards. Stoves/ranges are but not water heaters...



ABYC Definition:

Unattended Appliance - appliances intended to function without frequent attention by an operator, and that may cycle on and off automatically, such as refrigerators, thermostatically controlled cabin heaters, and water heaters.
I'm with Maine Sail on this one for the stated reason. ABYC also requires room sealed combustion systems. i.e. combustion air must be drawn from outside the vessel. With the automatic ignition types a dripping faucet (ever had one of those) could cause ignition when you are not aboard.
Pilot lights are prohibited by ABYC and NFPA.
__________________
That hysterical laughter you hear as you sail a way in your "new" boat ..... is the seller.
boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-11-2012, 12:32   #42
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,363
Re: Tankless Propane Water Heater?

I just dont see why it's any differnt for the USER (not ABYC) than the burner on top of your stove. Turn the heater on when you use it and turn it off when you dont. Essentially it's a attended appliance. I've never advocated leaving it burning/on. On many Marine stoves if the wind blows your top burner out (and this happens a lot) they continue to spew gas. On the hot water heater they dont. The other unsafe thing about cookstoves with a solenoid is that many people turn the solenoid off first. Then in the confusion of preparing the meal forget to turn the burner off. It's finally discovered the next meal when the solenoid is turned on, but the burner not lit immediately. "honey, what's that smell?"
As I said, as a cruiser, you have to be smarter than the bits on your boat. If you're not, Dont install propane ANYTHING.
PS: your propane cookstove does not draw combustion air from outside the boat either.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-11-2012, 12:37   #43
Marine Service Provider
 
boatpoker's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 2,593
Re: Tankless Propane Water Heater?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
I just dont see why it's any differnt for the USER (not ABYC) than the burner on top of your stove. Turn the heater on when you use it and turn it off when you dont. Essentially it's a attended appliance. I've never advocated leaving it burning/on. On many Marine stoves if the wind blows your top burner out (and this happens a lot) they continue to spew gas. On the hot water heater they dont. The other unsafe thing about cookstoves with a solenoid is that many people turn the solenoid off first. Then in the confusion of preparing the meal forget to turn the burner off. It's finally discovered the next meal when the solenoid is turned on, but the burner not lit immediately. "honey, what's that smell?"
As I said, as a cruiser, you have to be smarter than the bits on your boat. If you're not, Dont install propane ANYTHING.
PS: your propane cookstove does not draw combustion air from outside the boat either.
You are mistaken about the stove ... NFPA, ABYC and All of the various gas associations require that propane stoves have "flame failure devices" (thermocouples) that shut off the gas if the flame goes out and all approved type stoves are built this way.

As to the stove not drawing air from outside the boat ... it is an "attended appliance" as per all relevant standards.

Don't forget that leaking faucet.
__________________
That hysterical laughter you hear as you sail a way in your "new" boat ..... is the seller.
boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-11-2012, 13:08   #44
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,042
Re: Tankless Propane Water Heater?

"Perfect for Sailboats and Cabin Cruisers with active ventilation systems in place."
ROFLMAO.

I've never heard of a boat with an active ventilation system, unless it was a cruise liner. Or a submarine.

OTOH I do know the guy who passed out from CO poisoning in a shower, years ago, and started the whole action that knocked "Hot Walter" and others off the market for a while. Professionally installed system, too.

The problem is real. Hey, some people like to leave raw meat out on the counter overnight to defrost. Some of them are not among the quarter million who go to the hospital with food poisoning every year, either. Some of the others, improve the gene pool.
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-11-2012, 14:20   #45
Registered User
 
cwyckham's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Boat: Niagara 35
Posts: 1,870
Re: Tankless Propane Water Heater?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
Actually our stove/oven does meet the standards because it is considered an "attended appliance". We actually had a Force 10 on the boat when we bought it and it was PROMPTLY disconnected from the LPG system. I later removed it entirely.. You could not pay me to have one of those on my boat..

If anyone is comfortable with Force 10 you can buy a used one from me...
Just to clarify, I think you're talking about a Force 10 propane heater and not all Force 10 products. Agree with you on propane heaters in general, but the Force 10 galley stoves are pretty good.
__________________

__________________
cwyckham is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
propane, water

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Construction Thread for Custom 45' Cruising Powercat Capt Hugh Wilde Construction, Maintenance & Refit 349 06-04-2016 19:34
Fresh Water Tank Cleaning Dougfuller Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 76 23-07-2014 09:00
Watermakers Elisakp46 Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 43 12-12-2013 10:38
Replaced Water Heater, Only Seems To Work From Shore Power Not Engine bstowers Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 7 25-04-2013 13:21
marine survey advice Ardi Monohull Sailboats 13 28-02-2013 18:07



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:28.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.