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Old 09-11-2015, 17:43   #1
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Switching to fresh water flush question

I have two Jabsco Lite Touch toilets and want to replace one with a fresh water toilet. My wife can't stand the smell of stagnant sea water. I am "told" that the Quiet Flush is an easy replacement. Has anyone out there tackled this? The Lite Touch is the two bottom variety (fill and flush). I guess I am wondering if the bolt patterns are the same and if the overall job is straightforward.

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Old 09-11-2015, 18:33   #2
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Re: Switching to fresh water flush question

There may be a simpler-and MUCH less expensive!--solution to your stagnant sea water problem (caveat: this only works if a) the head sink and the toilet are both on the same side of the keel...and b) your head sink drain thru-hull is BELOW waterline): Reroute your head intake line to tee it into the head sink drain line below the waterline, just ahead of the seacock. This will allow you to flush using sea water, but also allow you to flush the sea water out of the WHOLE system before the boat will sit--which is when it stagnates and stinks. Last thing, after you've closed all the seacocks, fill the sink with CLEAN fresh water...flush the toilet. Because the seacock is closed, the toilet will pull the water out of the sink, rinsing the sea water out of the intake line, pump, channel in the rim of the bowl AND the discharge line.

If the toilet and head sink are on opposite sides of the keel, plumbing thiis solution would be more trouble than it's worth. But if the head sink drains above waterline, re-routing its drain line to tee it into the head intake line instead will work just as well.

If you're still determined to replace a toilet, it's not a difficult job, but the mounting bolt patterns for ANY other toilet won't match the ones for your existing toilet. But that's not a deal killer either. I can help you with it if my "plan B" doesn't light your fire.
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Old 09-11-2015, 19:12   #3
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Re: Switching to fresh water flush question

I can't recall the original JABSCO toilets that were on my boat, but they were manual pump jobs with a blue label on the handle. Replaced them with Jabsco Quiet Flush models. The previous owner had not used sea water; instead, he just filled several cups with water from the sink to flush the toilets. Ouch.

The bolt patterns for mounting the toilet were the same, but I had to drill new ones in one head because the toilet had to be moved a bit to fit the macerator/motor which extends to one side. Jabsco allows that macerator to be set to either side, but I still had to move the toilet. The other toilet just bolted into place.

You'll have to remove the sea water inlet hose--close the seacock and plug the hose. To get a source of fresh water, I tapped a hose into the cold freshwater pressure line for the sink and ran it to the electric solenoid (comes with toilet) that fits into the anti-siphon valve. The electric solenoid controlled by the toilet switch opens the solenoid and adds fresh water to the bowl. The solenoid replaces the anti-siphon valve at the top bend of the existing water intake hose. Remove the old anti-siphon valve and insert the new solenoid/anti-siphon valve (comes with the electric toilet) where the old one was. On one side of the solenoid attach the pressurized water line (from your sink); on the other side, the hose running to the back of the toilet to allow water to fill the bowl and flush the toilet.

You then have to hook up the power to the toilet. Jabsco provides a wiring diagram, but you need a power line and a ground. Toilets need their own circuit; 15A breaker, I think. I used a 10 AWG as the run was 10-15'.

Installation not hard. Get your wire, connectors, hoses and hose clamps ahead of time. Took me about a day for each toilet, and I'm slow.
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Old 10-11-2015, 05:40   #4
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Re: Switching to fresh water flush question

Here is a link to the owners manual for the Quiet Flush toilet.
http://www.xylemflowcontrol.com/file...00-0618-GB.pdf
If you decide to buy one I'd love the chance to quote you on it.
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Old 10-11-2015, 06:58   #5
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Re: Switching to fresh water flush question

I actually built my own freshwater heads . One built on a headhunter toilet and base and the forward head I used the existing full size jabsco bowl and built its own base out of epoxy and ABS pipe. I put them both on there own macerator pumps mounted behind them out of sight and feed the fresh water from solenoid valves to the water in section of the bowl . They work perfectly and don't spit back at you and are relatively quiet . Click image for larger version

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Old 10-11-2015, 07:41   #6
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Re: Switching to fresh water flush question

I changed my Raritan SeaEra electric heads over to a fresh water flush about 5 years ago and it works great. Here's how I did it.

Take the fresh water line to your head sink and get a T plumbing valve and insert. Get a cheap, and I mean cheap, 2 way splitter for a garden hose, along with a fitting to fit your hose size, sold in most ACE hardware stores. Run one leg to the raw water hose and the other to the fresh water hose. You'll also need a 12v water solenoid hooked up to your fresh water line. ( I paid over $100.00 for mine from our friends at West, but u can buy from any Grainger Industrial Dist for around $50.00 or so). You'll have to hook the solenoid up to your motor on the head so when you push the flush button it open it up to let the water through. If not , the fresh water would come into the bowl continously from the onboard water pump. You should be able to do all this for under $100 in parts and minimal plumbing.

When at sea, you simply close the fresh water side of the y valve and pump raw water in as usual and when you want to use fresh water from your tanks or shore water, just close the other side.

Hope this helps, like I said at first, mine has worked great for over 5 years.
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Old 10-11-2015, 07:48   #7
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Re: Switching to fresh water flush question

Quote:
Originally Posted by SausalitoDave View Post
I have two Jabsco Lite Touch toilets and want to replace one with a fresh water toilet. My wife can't stand the smell of stagnant sea water. I am "told" that the Quiet Flush is an easy replacement. Has anyone out there tackled this? The Lite Touch is the two bottom variety (fill and flush). I guess I am wondering if the bolt patterns are the same and if the overall job is straightforward.

Dave
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Dave,

I don't have an answer to your specific question, but can share how our heads are plumbed for either raw [salt in most cases] or fresh water flushing.

This was accomplished by the previous owner by installing a T in the head raw water intake hose- close to the through hull valve. A check valve [to prevent raw and/or contaminated water from infiltrating the potable water line] and ball valve were then installed on the open port on the new T. [A 3-way valve would be better than a T and extra ball valve, but that is all they could get at the time in Trinidad...]

A pressurized cold fresh water line was attached to the new ball valve on the T. Another valve was installed next to the head to run flush water when pumping the head. [This works well with a Lavac head.]

The downside to using pressurized water in the Lavac is it provides one an opportunity to overflow the head if one doesn't turn the fresh water flush valve off completely...

You could just as easily attach a non-pressurized fresh water line instead. Then the regular pumping cycle on your head will draw fresh instead of raw water.

To select the preferred flushing water source we close the valve of the one not desired. [e.g., for a fresh water flush we close the raw water intake through-hull and open the fresh water ball valve on the T described above. Again; a 3-way ball valve would be a better choice than a T. ]

Fresh flush is our preferred operating mode, so the raw water intake through-hull is closed most of the time.

The trade-off is you go through more fresh water this way... [We have 220 gallon water tank capacity and a watermaker...]

I have friends with the VacuFlush heads and they use far less fresh water per flush that we do with the Lavacs. [.5 gallon vs ~1-2 gallons/flush to clear the discharge line.]

In case this is of interest to you.

Cheers!

Bill
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Old 10-11-2015, 07:52   #8
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Re: Switching to fresh water flush question

Quote:
Originally Posted by peghall View Post
There may be a simpler-and MUCH less expensive!--solution to your stagnant sea water problem (caveat: this only works if a) the head sink and the toilet are both on the same side of the keel...and b) your head sink drain thru-hull is BELOW waterline): Reroute your head intake line to tee it into the head sink drain line below the waterline, just ahead of the seacock. This will allow you to flush using sea water, but also allow you to flush the sea water out of the WHOLE system before the boat will sit--which is when it stagnates and stinks. Last thing, after you've closed all the seacocks, fill the sink with CLEAN fresh water...flush the toilet. Because the seacock is closed, the toilet will pull the water out of the sink, rinsing the sea water out of the intake line, pump, channel in the rim of the bowl AND the discharge line.

If the toilet and head sink are on opposite sides of the keel, plumbing thiis solution would be more trouble than it's worth. But if the head sink drains above waterline, re-routing its drain line to tee it into the head intake line instead will work just as well.

If you're still determined to replace a toilet, it's not a difficult job, but the mounting bolt patterns for ANY other toilet won't match the ones for your existing toilet. But that's not a deal killer either. I can help you with it if my "plan B" doesn't light your fire.
Peggy, nice to see you still giving good free advice!

I agree with your solution and it's how I'm going to "flush flush" our Lavac offshore. What, in your opinion, is the frequency with which a fresh water diversion via the head sink to the head water would suffice to keep the critters and sediments at bay? We are pulling in water in the usual sense from a centerline standpipe.

I would also mention that a similar setup can be used to winterize most diesel motors. Out of the water, I can seal over my standpipe from below and reroute my galley sink drain into it (it usually goes to a separate seacock through hull). Having drained the water from the raw water side, simply start the engine and pour antifreeze down the drain; the engine raw water circuit draws this through the engine and into the waterlock/lift, and out the exhaust. So it's a similar idea for a different end result.
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Old 10-11-2015, 08:40   #9
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Re: Switching to fresh water flush question

Just replaced old jabsco manual flush with quiet flush took 2 hours one thing different was the outlet pipe was 1" not 1 1/2" they included and adaptor it was easy to install i had to tap the freshwater off the sink which had 17mm Pex pipe but i found an adapter that worked.This has cut down on odors not using sea water in the holding tanks
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Old 10-11-2015, 11:10   #10
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Re: Switching to fresh water flush question

I switched to a electric from my original jabsco. Even the quiet flush is a bit loud and draws some amps but it is only for a few seconds so-- I hooked the electric up to my shower sump circuit since it was close, convenient, and I figure I would not be using both at the same time. I bought the adapter kit so it raised the bowl up slightly but not much. The only problem I had was the output on the electric faces forward so I had to build a small 180 out of copper to get it headed the right way
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Old 10-11-2015, 11:33   #11
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Re: Switching to fresh water flush question

SausalitoDave ,


Do you live aboard, or do you typically weekend on the boat?


We have a raw water manual pump and weekend and vacation on the boat. We do the following every Sunday.

1) Put enough freshwater into the bowl and flush it back, so the head and sanitation line have freshwater in them.

2) Get a pump out

3) Put holding tank chemicals into the head and flush it back to the tank with freshwater.

4) Leave for the week.

We never have any head odors of any kind.
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Old 10-11-2015, 11:48   #12
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Re: Switching to fresh water flush question

Hi Dave,
I tried to reply to your PM but my computer acted up.
Anyway here is the link to the Lite Touch manual.
http://www.xylemflowcontrol.com/files/58500-xxxx.pdf
I don't think the bolt holes will match.
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Old 10-11-2015, 18:15   #13
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Re: Switching to fresh water flush question

For what it is worth, here's my suggestion in using a Jabsco 'Quiet-Flush' (the guy who decided on that name was obviously a comedian!) toilet in freshwater or raw water mode.

The standard installation for the raw water version uses a separate pump (usually located under the basin cabinet) to supply water to the toilet when the flush button is pushed.

The standard installation for the freshwater version uses a combination solenoid/non-return valve to supply pressurised F/W to the toilet when the flush button is pressed.

Which ever version you have or go for, here is the arrangement for the best of both worlds.

Separate raw water pump is fed as normal via a seacock.
Outlet of raw water pump goes to a 'Y' valve (or if you want to be flash, a motorised 'Y' valve, or two-way solenoid valve).
F/W solenoid valve/non-return valve (Tee'd off from basin cold line) goes to the other side of the 'Y' valve, and the outlet of the 'Y' valve to the toilet.

Solenoid valve and raw water pump are both connected to the flush switch wiring (if you have the raw water version, the power cable to the raw water pump will be plenty to power the solenoid. If you have the F/W flush version, check that the cabling is sufficient to handle the 10A current draw of a 12V flush pump.

In the same way that you now have a 'Y' valve for the selection of raw water or F/W to the toilet, a small changeover switch must be installed to select when the flush switch is pressed, whether the +ve 12V goes to the raw water pump, or the solenoid valve.

To make a neat and logical installation, the switch can be mounted next to the 'Y' valve so you flip the valve and flick the switch.

Alternatively, if you want to be really flash, that switch can be mounted in the Jabsco flush-control panel (miniature toggle switch), or a small rocker switch on its' own separate panel next to the Jabsco panel. Then with the flick of that switch, the solenoid valve vs. the raw water pump can be selected, and at the same time the motorised 'Y' valve/ two-way solenoid valve is actuated.

Note - if you go for the two-way solenoid valve option, ensure it is 'latching' i.e. does not need to be constantly energised in one mode, and therefore continually consuming power.

Frankly, for the number of times one would want to switch between fresh and raw flush, a manual valve with switch next to it is the practical way to go. No different to opening the basin cabinet door to shut off the seacocks before we go sailing (and we all do that don't we .....).

Hope that helps the OP, or someone else tuned into the this thread.

David
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Old 13-11-2015, 16:11   #14
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Re: Switching to fresh water flush question

the cheapest way to convert to fresh water flush is to keep a few jugs of rain water or gray water or the first few liters of watermaker product that you used to throw away. pour the water from the jug into the top hole on the toilet while activating the macerator. you now have a fresh water flush head. and you get a much better flush than your puny fresh water pump can deliver. try it. you will like it.
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Old 24-07-2016, 04:05   #15
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Re: Switching to fresh water flush question

Highly recommend this.

Replacing our head waste lines we updated the water supply. We added a valve switch behind the heads that can change from sea water from the sea cocks to fresh water of the holding tanks to flush. Great for when you are moored in brackish water or tied to the dock.

No more nasty toilet bowl smells.

Happy wife happy life
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