Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 17-07-2016, 15:44   #1
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: In Myrtle Beach, then southbound
Boat: Lagoon 410
Posts: 356
Stinky Head? Permeated Hoses? Solution!

When we first bought our Lagoon 410 the starboard head was really smelly. And of course, that was the admirals head, with mine being on the port side. There was no discussion, I knew the hoses had to go. So while sitting in Key Largo, I replaced all the hoses on that side. For two years no problem, then slowly the smell started to return. I refused to believe that the new hoses had to be the cause of the smell. So I cleaned the bilge like a madman, got no result. Added enough chemicals to drive up the Dow Jones average on chemical companies. Cleaned the engine compartment. Sprayed hospital grade disinfectant all over everything in sight of the starboard head. Still listening to the admiral ask when the smell was going to go away. For TWO more years I chased the problem. Yeah, I'm hardheaded...

I should have paid attention to Sherlock Holmes when he, and I paraphrase, said, " when you eliminate the obvious then it must be the what remains that is the truth". I still wasn't convinced the hoses failed after two years. But how to know for sure? After all, the replacement hose I chose is over $12.50 a foot with my discount. To purchase over a hundred bucks worth of hose and not to mention tearing out the old hoses and then find out the problem was elsewhere was too much to bare. What to do? Well, here's what I did.

I took aluminum tape, the kind used for sheet metal duct work and wrapped the hoses in it. I figured no smell would go through the tape and if the head stopped stinking then, viola! It took about half a roll and a couple of hours but it was worth it. NO MORE SMELL! My wife is so happy and I no longer have to hear her nag, uh, I mean "comment" on the smell. So now I know for sure that the hose replacement would be a wise investment. The only caveat is now when I open the small door under the sink, it looks a little like the lunar module in there.

One last thing, NEVER, EVER use the Shields 148 sanitation hose that they sell at West Marine. May as well use one of those soaker hoses they sell at Home Depot. Live and learn I did.
__________________

__________________
In Florida headed south for the Keys, then north...
www.elcaminoblog.com
Sid at SailAway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2016, 18:35   #2
Marine Service Provider
 
peghall's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,368
Re: Stinky Head? Permeated Hoses? Solution!

One last thing, NEVER, EVER use the Shields 148 sanitation hose that they sell at West Marine. May as well use one of those soaker hoses they sell at Home Depot. Live and learn I did.

A lesson I also learned the hard way. I'd had Trident 148 (same hose) on one of my own boats for 7 years without a trace of odor...so I used it again on the old boat I was restoring. That was in June. In August I began to notice odor in the master cabin (the tank and VacuFlush equipment were under its berth). I spent a month chasing a leak until I too finally took Holmes' advice to heart...tested the hoses for permation...and sho' nuff, they FLUNKED the test. They'd permeated in less than 90 days! Also bringing home another British expression: "Penny wise and pound foolish!"

I replaced it with the good stuff because I'm not sure what kind of electrolysis and similar problems can result from interaction of other things that come in contact with metal tape...I've gotten conflicting advice about that. So I will tell you to keep a close eye out, but otherwise enjoy the absence of odor on your boat at last.
__________________
2016 Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "The NEW Get Rid of Boat Odors"
peghall is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 23-08-2016, 08:44   #3
Registered User
 
mottseng's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Ontario Canada
Boat: 1985 Canadian Sailcraft CS30
Posts: 341
Re: Stinky Head? Permeated Hoses? Solution!

I love the tape idea a temp solution until you get around to replacing. Thanks !!
__________________
mottseng is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-08-2016, 13:21   #4
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: In Myrtle Beach, then southbound
Boat: Lagoon 410
Posts: 356
Re: Stinky Head? Permeated Hoses? Solution!

Just a quick update and make things a little clearer. I didn't wrap every single hose. I identified the portion of the hoses that held black water at all times, because that's where the permeation occurs. On my Lagoon the holding tank has a "Y" at the bottom of the tank. On one side of the Y the hose drops down forming a trap before it heads straight up to the pumpout inlet. On the other side of the Y the hose goes more or less in a straight line for 4 feet before it rises up to connect to the Y valve. These two sections are the only areas that hold black water. Those are the only areas I taped.

The real test has been the last two weeks here on the Chesapeake. The temps have been pushing the upper 90's the whole time. With the tape, now I have no smell what so ever coming from the head. Since this has worked so well and the hoses are fairly new and still in good structural condition, I've decided not to replace any of the hoses. That's the best news from all this! The aluminum tape has proven itself very durable in its normal use in heating and AC ductwork, so I'm pretty confident I'll get years of service in this use also. If anything changes I will update the post with those changes. I said the best thing was not having to replace the hoses. I take that back. The best thing is now the wife is HAPPY!
__________________
In Florida headed south for the Keys, then north...
www.elcaminoblog.com
Sid at SailAway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-08-2016, 17:53   #5
Now on the Dark Side: Stink Potter.
 
CSY Man's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Ft. Lauderdale
Boat: 2016 Glacier Bay 2770
Posts: 3,243
Images: 114
Re: Stinky Head? Permeated Hoses? Solution!

I used series 141 "Tigerflex"
Seemed to hold up pretty good.
Also used the same hoses for all bilge pumps instead of the flimsy sh!t they sell for bilge pump hoses.
__________________
Life is sexually transmitted
CSY Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-08-2016, 18:17   #6
Registered User
 
Greggegner's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 406
Re: Stinky Head? Permeated Hoses? Solution!

How many composting head owners complain about order...just saying...8 years and happy.


Greg S/V Sweet Dreams
Pearson P385 out of Racine Wisconsin probably two boxes if you want to get a few boxes that vision c
__________________
Greggegner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-08-2016, 19:44   #7
Registered User
 
UNCIVILIZED's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Up the mast, looking for clean wind.
Boat: Anything entertaining.
Posts: 3,924
Re: Stinky Head? Permeated Hoses? Solution!

Neat "fix", though as to the time frame... Ouch! That's a lot of "corrective hits, er, hints" to absorb.
__________________

The Uncommon Thing, The Hard Thing, The Important Thing (in Life): Making Promises to Yourself, And Keeping Them.
UNCIVILIZED is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2016, 01:41   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sailing the Caribbean
Boat: Switch 51
Posts: 1,398
Re: Stinky Head? Permeated Hoses? Solution!

Quote:
Originally Posted by peghall View Post
One last thing, NEVER, EVER use the Shields 148 sanitation hose that they sell at West Marine. May as well use one of those soaker hoses they sell at Home Depot. Live and learn I did.

A lesson I also learned the hard way. I'd had Trident 148 (same hose) on one of my own boats for 7 years without a trace of odor...so I used it again on the old boat I was restoring. That was in June. In August I began to notice odor in the master cabin (the tank and VacuFlush equipment were under its berth). I spent a month chasing a leak until I too finally took Holmes' advice to heart...tested the hoses for permation...and sho' nuff, they FLUNKED the test. They'd permeated in less than 90 days! Also bringing home another British expression: "Penny wise and pound foolish!"

I replaced it with the good stuff because I'm not sure what kind of electrolysis and similar problems can result from interaction of other things that come in contact with metal tape...I've gotten conflicting advice about that. So I will tell you to keep a close eye out, but otherwise enjoy the absence of odor on your boat at last.
What is the good stuff and where to get it?
__________________
SVNeko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2016, 02:11   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,261
Re: Stinky Head? Permeated Hoses? Solution!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greggegner View Post
How many composting head owners complain about order...just saying...8 years and happy.


Greg S/V Sweet Dreams
Pearson P385 out of Racine Wisconsin probably two boxes if you want to get a few boxes that vision c
Yep, if the tape is working don't fix what ain't broke but when the time comes it will likely be cheaper and easier to just rip out the liquid sewage system that will only smell again in a couple of years and replace it with one that won't .
__________________
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2016, 04:24   #10
Writing Full-Time Since 2014
 
thinwater's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 3,763
Re: Stinky Head? Permeated Hoses? Solution!

The moral of the story is to subscribe to Practical Sailor Magazine. You would have known that 148 is not recommended (rapid permeation) and that Nashau aluminum duct tape does a very serviceable job for a few years. Think the time, aggravation, and money you could have saved.



The Fight Against Head Odors Continues - Practical Sailor Print Edition Article

The Fight Against Head Odors Continues - Practical Sailor Print Edition Article
__________________
Gear Testing--Engineering--Sailing
https://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/2017/01/the-book-store.html
"Keeping a Cruising Boat for Peanuts"
"Faster Cruising for the Coastal Sailor"
thinwater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2016, 05:01   #11
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29 49.16 N 82 25.82 W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 11,660
Re: Stinky Head? Permeated Hoses? Solution!

Quote:
Originally Posted by peghall View Post
One last thing, NEVER, EVER use the Shields 148 sanitation hose that they sell at West Marine. May as well use one of those soaker hoses they sell at Home Depot. Live and learn I did.

A lesson I also learned the hard way. I'd had Trident 148 (same hose) on one of my own boats for 7 years without a trace of odor...so I used it again on the old boat I was restoring. That was in June. In August I began to notice odor in the master cabin (the tank and VacuFlush equipment were under its berth). I spent a month chasing a leak until I too finally took Holmes' advice to heart...tested the hoses for permation...and sho' nuff, they FLUNKED the test. They'd permeated in less than 90 days! Also bringing home another British expression: "Penny wise and pound foolish!"

I replaced it with the good stuff because I'm not sure what kind of electrolysis and similar problems can result from interaction of other things that come in contact with metal tape...I've gotten conflicting advice about that. So I will tell you to keep a close eye out, but otherwise enjoy the absence of odor on your boat at last.
Hi Peg,

I'm a bit disconcerted to hear about the problems with the Trident 148 hose. I did use the Trident 102 which is supposed to be impermeable however if their quality has slipped I wonder if that will remain odor free or not. Any thoughts?


Thanks
Skip
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2016, 05:02   #12
Registered User
 
Cotemar's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Boat: FP, Helia 44 Evo
Posts: 5,343
Stinky Head? Permeated Hoses? Solution!

This thread covers most of the Head Smells in real detail.

Sewage Hose or PVC Pipe ?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	PA260027.jpg
Views:	98
Size:	435.6 KB
ID:	130038   Click image for larger version

Name:	PA260036.jpg
Views:	86
Size:	422.1 KB
ID:	130039  

Click image for larger version

Name:	PA270052.jpg
Views:	84
Size:	454.0 KB
ID:	130040   Click image for larger version

Name:	Cotemar14.jpg
Views:	88
Size:	389.1 KB
ID:	130041  

__________________
Cotemar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2016, 07:42   #13
Marine Service Provider
 
peghall's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,368
Re: Stinky Head? Permeated Hoses? Solution!

I'm a bit disconcerted to hear about the problems with the Trident 148 hose.

Nothing new about that, no quality slippage. Shields and Trident #148 (identical hoses) is the cheapest sanitation hose on the market....single walled flex pvc that has always permeated in a heartbeat if any waste is allowed to stand in it. People--and especially boat builders use it because it IS cheap.

I did use the Trident 102 which is supposed to be impermeable however if their quality has slipped I wonder if that will remain odor free or not. Any thoughts?

Trident 101/102 (identical except for color...102 has a white "skin"), otoh, is a
double-walled rubber hose that has a biocide in the rubber formula. It's been on the market for about 20 years without a single reported odor permeation failure...although I've picked up a few--VERY few in at least 20 years--anecdotal stories that it has. It has one major drawback: it's stiff as an ironing board! Making it not the best choice in installations that have a lot of bends tighter than about 10 degrees because those require breaking it to insert inline radius fittings and each one of those is a pair of fitting connections that has the potential to leak. But that's the only thing that would prevent me from recommending it.

In an installation that's not suitable for Trident 101/102, Raritan SaniFlex hose is the best choice...the stuff can make a tight u-turn! It's now been on the market for 7-8 years without a single reported odor--or any other--failure. It's PRICY, but cheaper and easier than buying cheap hose and having to replace it.

I don't recommend SeaLand OdorSafe. It has the same 5 year warranty as 101/102 and SaniFlex, but I've been on at least half dozen boats on which it's failed in less than year and have heard of dozens more.
__________________
2016 Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "The NEW Get Rid of Boat Odors"
peghall is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2016, 11:09   #14
Registered User
 
mottseng's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Ontario Canada
Boat: 1985 Canadian Sailcraft CS30
Posts: 341
Re: Stinky Head? Permeated Hoses? Solution!

Sid at SailAway - You may be on to something. If the odour is from a permeated hose and a metal covering stops that then why not produce a hose that already has a metal jacket?

Sid at SailAway - you need to patent this idea
__________________
mottseng is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2016, 11:27   #15
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 14,003
Re: Stinky Head? Permeated Hoses? Solution!

While changing hoses did help with my issue, I went with the Raritan Sani flex, but what really seemed to completely eliminate all odors was changing to fresh water flush, the actual head itself seems to harbor some odors if you flush with salt water.
__________________

__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
head

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Stinky Head (I know, it's been said before) SassySailor Liveaboard's Forum 17 13-07-2014 12:26
Permeated BW Tank? smanch Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 13 03-07-2014 09:50
Head is Stinky LOL Tori Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 19 13-06-2011 16:05
Sorry, Can't Find the Thread on Stinky Head Fixes FLKokopelli Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 8 07-12-2009 17:45


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 19:08.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.