Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 23-03-2014, 14:23   #46
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: May 2012
Location: New Orleans
Boat: We have a problem... A serious addiction issue.
Posts: 3,940
Re: Seacock/Through-Hull Replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
My through-hulls are unbonded, so this is unlikely. Titanium would be the perfect material for this and many other marine applications, and I think hardly more expensive than bronze. I can't imagine why titanium is not more widely used.
Because my ex-boss would spend the $15,000 to have titanium ball valves designed.

The company I used to work for makes titanium thru hulls but no valves, and titanium and bronze can't be married under water, so you couldn't have a system. I begged and pleaded, but couldn't get any traction on the idea.

As for cost... A titanium thru hull would cost about 10% more retail price than a Groco bronze one, weigh 1/3 as much, and was about twice as strong.
__________________

__________________
Greg

- If animals weren't meant to be eaten then they wouldn't be made of food.
Stumble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-03-2014, 14:43   #47
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,039
Re: Seacock/Through-Hull Replacement

"Stainless steel" is a very broad term encompassing many steel alloys, some are in fact magnetic, some not.
__________________

__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-03-2014, 14:43   #48
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,441
Re: Seacock/Through-Hull Replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
Because my ex-boss would spend the $15,000 to have titanium ball valves designed.

...I begged and pleaded, but couldn't get any traction on the idea.
.
I don't get it.

You say your boss WOULD spend the money.

Then you say you begged and pleaded.

Were you trying to persuade him NOT to spend it?
__________________
Andrew Troup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-03-2014, 16:06   #49
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: Seacock/Through-Hull Replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
I'm no expert, but to me a seacock is flanged and fits directly to the hull (or a backing plate), anything screwed onto a threaded pipe or thru hull fitting is a valve to me.
If you have standpipes that terminate above the waterline, then maybe a plastic valve is worth a shot, or I wonder if you could get a plastic reducer or coupling and use a bronze or SS ball valve? the plastic fitting would isolate the valve from the steel.
Using dictionary and all of my boating books indicate 'seacock' refers to any 'valve' that lets water into a boat.

I've now purchased two 'True-Design' plastic seacocks from New Zealand and I've fitted the first which is a 2 inch one for the head. They meet all requirements of safety within Newzealand/Australia so I'll see what they go like. I wanted to avoid stainless given so far two of the stainless ones in the boat were so badly corroded that one of them fell apart in my hand, luckily when I was on the hard stand. The other one had the spindle break in the closed position.
__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-03-2014, 19:31   #50
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: May 2012
Location: New Orleans
Boat: We have a problem... A serious addiction issue.
Posts: 3,940
Re: Seacock/Through-Hull Replacement

Wouldn't.

Stupid autocorrect.
__________________
Greg

- If animals weren't meant to be eaten then they wouldn't be made of food.
Stumble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-03-2014, 19:59   #51
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Annapolis, MD, USA
Boat: Menger 19' Catboat
Posts: 248
Re: Seacock/Through-Hull Replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
Wouldn't.

Stupid autocorrect.
Always amazes me the number of people who have autocorrect enabled and then fail to proofread their posts before hitting the submit button.

One would think an attorney would be more sensitive to such issues.
__________________
Ukeluthier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-03-2014, 20:00   #52
Registered User
 
goat's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Everywhere (Sea of Cortez right now)
Boat: PSC Orion 27
Posts: 1,097
Re: Seacock/Through-Hull Replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ukeluthier View Post
Always amazes me the number of people who have autocorrect enabled and then fail to proofread their posts before hitting the submit button.

One would think an attorney would be more sensitive to such issues.
__________________
goat is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 23-03-2014, 21:37   #53
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: South-East Australia coast
Boat: 40ft fibreglass sloop
Posts: 163
Re: Seacock/Through-Hull Replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedsherrin View Post
I've now purchased two 'True-Design' plastic seacocks from New Zealand and I've fitted the first which is a 2 inch one for the head. They meet all requirements of safety within Newzealand/Australia so I'll see what they go like. I wanted to avoid stainless given so far two of the stainless ones in the boat were so badly corroded that one of them fell apart in my hand, luckily when I was on the hard stand. The other one had the spindle break in the closed position.
I have had four TruDesign ball valves installed for 24 months - so far so good.
If there is swelling it has had zero effect on the mechanism; still smooth to operate. The manufacturer claims to have been aware of stiffness experiences with Forespar valves and designed their product to eliminate the same. Well, we'll see in five year's time.
Fire is a risk with these, but on the other hand they are not subject to galvanic effects or dezinctification.
__________________
Marqus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-03-2014, 01:34   #54
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,441
Re: Seacock/Through-Hull Replacement

It must be a special autocorrect algorithm* sold only in the US.

I must see that particular substitution at least twenty times from US posters (across a number of forums) for every once I see it from the rest of the world.

(And the latter only recently, whereas from the US, it predates the widespread use of autocorrect)

I wondered if it was an expression of relentless positivism which saw the positive form substituted for the negative.

*Ah *Ha*! maybe it was invented by Al Gore?
__________________
Andrew Troup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-03-2014, 02:12   #55
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 202
Re: Seacock/Through-Hull Replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post
It must be a special autocorrect algorithm* sold only in the US.

I must see that particular substitution at least twenty times from US posters (across a number of forums) for every once I see it from the rest of the world.

(And the latter only recently, whereas from the US, it predates the widespread use of autocorrect)

I wondered if it was an expression of relentless positivism which saw the positive form substituted for the negative.

*Ah *Ha*! maybe it was invented by Al Gore?
...ROFL -

(perhaps auto-correct is an easy scapegoat?)

Al Gore: Those who know him best (TN where he was a Senator for over 20 years) gave their vote to Bush... That's really gotta sting! Statements such as the one (invented the internet) you referenced must have helped his credibility ~
__________________
Sondor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-03-2014, 02:33   #56
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble View Post

Because my ex-boss would spend the $15,000 to have titanium ball valves designed.

The company I used to work for makes titanium thru hulls but no valves, and titanium and bronze can't be married under water, so you couldn't have a system. I begged and pleaded, but couldn't get any traction on the idea.

As for cost... A titanium thru hull would cost about 10% more retail price than a Groco bronze one, weigh 1/3 as much, and was about twice as strong.
I don't understand. Titanium ball valves are readily available from Modentic and other companies. Why would anyone need to design one?
__________________
"Parce que je suis heureux en mer, et peut-Ítre pour sauver mon ame. . . "
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24-03-2014, 17:18   #57
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: May 2012
Location: New Orleans
Boat: We have a problem... A serious addiction issue.
Posts: 3,940
Re: Seacock/Through-Hull Replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
I don't understand. Titanium ball valves are readily available from Modentic and other companies. Why would anyone need to design one?
This is going back a few years, but as I remember we couldn't license a design, and the designs on the market ass suffered from a few issues. Either they had a dissimilar metal problem, a titanium-titanium wear issue, or were designed for high pressure applications which made them very expensive.

It really came down to a market that they thought was too small to justify the outlay. While I kept pointing out that the switch to titanium would only cost the end user a couple of dollars per compared to bronze, so the market was huge.
__________________
Greg

- If animals weren't meant to be eaten then they wouldn't be made of food.
Stumble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-03-2014, 17:56   #58
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,355
Re: Seacock/Through-Hull Replacement

The bottom line seems to be that when things do come out made of Ti... they end up extrememly expensive. I'm not saying it's necessarily justified. Try looking at Ti snap shackles!
The other problem I could see with valves is that ti on ti galls terribly without special treatment. Far worse than SS on SS. In addition, you cant just put Ti on a steel boat... yeah the ti wont corrode but I suspect the boat will be sacrificial..?
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 25-03-2014, 07:08   #59
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Kimberton PA
Boat: Cabo Rico 38 / Bayfield 32
Posts: 573
Images: 1
Re: Seacock/Through-Hull Replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
This is going back a few years, but as I remember we couldn't license a design, and the designs on the market ass suffered from a few issues. Either they had a dissimilar metal problem, a titanium-titanium wear issue, or were designed for high pressure applications which made them very expensive.

It really came down to a market that they thought was too small to justify the outlay. While I kept pointing out that the switch to titanium would only cost the end user a couple of dollars per compared to bronze, so the market was huge.
You really *do* need to proof read anything auto-corrected. I agree that the market would likely be pretty good for an all titanium solution.
__________________
Saltyhog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-03-2014, 12:21   #60
Registered User
 
Watercolor's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Montpelier, VT
Boat: On the hard for now - 2 dinghies
Posts: 198
Re: Seacock/Through-Hull Replacement

Of the two glass filled nylon ball valves, Tru Design and Forespar, the Tru Design is, in my mind, the far superior valve for marine use. It used far superior materials and is clearly a better design to both the Forespar 849/850 and 93 series.

The Trudesign valve is completely rebuildable, like any good valve should be. The materials Trudesign uses are a 30% + glass (fiber and ball) filled nylon for the housing and major parts. It has Tensile strength and flexural modulus values in full saturation equal to the Marelon product "Dry as Molded." (DAM) The ball and races are made of a very strong teflon.

I think you'll find these valves a good choice for a non-metal valve.

Jed
__________________

__________________
Watercolor is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
hull, men

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:52.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.