Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 04-01-2013, 07:02   #31
Registered User
 
endoftheroad's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Key West
Boat: Westsail 32 and Herreshoff 28
Posts: 1,159
Re: Sea Cock Won't Open or Close

Good morning,
My Groco seacock engine intake is stuck open.
The hose from the seacock to the strainer is much too old and worrysome.
I can't haul out till summer.

Can I replace that section of hose (24") and plumb a new valve into the hose while in the water?
And, what valve would you suggest? West Marine is nearby.

Thanks
__________________

__________________
endoftheroad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2013, 07:47   #32
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cruising the east coast and Bahamas
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 228
Re: Sea Cock Won't Open or Close

Be very careful. I had a seacock on a cockpit drain 'stuck open' when we bought the boat. Turns out it was only very slightly open and the shaft had sheared off. Surveyor missed it. Found it when disassembling and lubing each seacock. Fortunately was on the hard already so replacement wasn't too bad.

I say to be careful since the shaft may already be sheared or about to shear. Also it may not be as open as needed for engine coolant.

This is an old thread, but as others have noted, it's possible for a diver to do the work in the water. But it might be worth a short haul to get it looked at. I'd be leery of simply adding a new section of hose and valve without addressing the seacock problem.

My 0.02
__________________

__________________
Greg Long
s/v Paperbird
www.paperbird.us
Paperbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2013, 07:54   #33
Registered User
 
endoftheroad's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Key West
Boat: Westsail 32 and Herreshoff 28
Posts: 1,159
Re: Sea Cock Won't Open or Close

Actually this seacock has been stuck open for probably a few years.
The motor has been used, the water flow is good.

But, it is safe to replace the 24" section of 1" hose with an inline valve for safety till I get her hauled?
__________________
endoftheroad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2013, 08:15   #34
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 371
Re: Sea Cock Won't Open or Close

If this seacock has a simple circular inlet, why not plug it with an external wooden plug while you fix the inboard problem?? Also, if you can plug the inlet temporarily, you might try lubricating the valve from above with oil. Just be careful to not use too much force. One way or the other, it sounds as though you are going to get pretty wet!!!
__________________
chrisjs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2013, 08:20   #35
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Catawba Island Ohio
Boat: Beneteau 423
Posts: 51
There should be a strainer on the wet side of the hull that precludes using a wooden plug.

I would second the recommendation to do the work on the hard. What could go wrong generally does in a case like this
__________________
Tonyjay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2013, 08:44   #36
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cruising the east coast and Bahamas
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 228
Re: Sea Cock Won't Open or Close

Yeah - safe is such a hard word. Would I want the ability to close that line? Yes, definitely. Would I be willing to allow a potential failure point to exist in the system? Depends. Too many different factors for a single answer.

As Tonyjay says, the raw water inlet should have a strainer over it that would preclude a simple wooden plug. If you choose to do the work wet, you might consider a large rubber sheet held in place with a line under the hull.
__________________
Greg Long
s/v Paperbird
www.paperbird.us
Paperbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2013, 08:51   #37
Registered User
 
Watercolor's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Montpelier, VT
Boat: On the hard for now - 2 dinghies
Posts: 198
Re: Sea Cock Won't Open or Close

You have raised two flags that sugar off to one major concern about you're doing this repair in the water. They are:

1. The valve is stuck and sounds like it is really stuck.
2. The hose is in a condition (visually) that is making you nervous NOW.

The question becomes, what else has failed or about to fail that you don't know about.

For example, is the through-hull corroded?

The old hose is most likely steel reinforced and will have taken quite a set on the tailpiece. Working it off may be more force than the through-hull can take. Then your simple repair becomes a disaster.

Ask at around, I'm sure you'll hear that, especially with through-hulls, what you see on the outside can mean bigger problems on the inside.

If I felt I had to do something, I'd, at a minimum, get the dock, make sure your bilge pumps are working, and you have some backup.

Personally, I'd put a bung in the through-hull, try as gently as possible, remove the old hose and simply replace it, especially if the hose terminates at a point that is higher than the waterline.

My second thought would be: if with the current hose in place and the hose clamps loosened see if you can, without much effort, get the tailpiece to turn so you feel it will ultimately come off . If you can then you should be able to remove it. Then get a bronze or stainless (you can use plastic, not my choice) nipple fitting with a ball valve. Attach the nipple fitting to the seacock, attach the valve to the nipple fitting, re-attach the tailpiece to the valve and put on a new hose.

Good luck.
__________________
Watercolor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2013, 09:21   #38
Registered User
 
endoftheroad's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Key West
Boat: Westsail 32 and Herreshoff 28
Posts: 1,159
Re: Sea Cock Won't Open or Close

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedg View Post
You have raised two flags that sugar off to one major concern about you're doing this repair in the water. They are:

1. The valve is stuck and sounds like it is really stuck.
2. The hose is in a condition (visually) that is making you nervous NOW.

The question becomes, what else has failed or about to fail that you don't know about.

For example, is the through-hull corroded?

The old hose is most likely steel reinforced and will have taken quite a set on the tailpiece. Working it off may be more force than the through-hull can take. Then your simple repair becomes a disaster.

Ask at around, I'm sure you'll hear that, especially with through-hulls, what you see on the outside can mean bigger problems on the inside.

If I felt I had to do something, I'd, at a minimum, get the dock, make sure your bilge pumps are working, and you have some backup.

Personally, I'd put a bung in the through-hull, try as gently as possible, remove the old hose and simply replace it, especially if the hose terminates at a point that is higher than the waterline.

My second thought would be: if with the current hose in place and the hose clamps loosened see if you can, without much effort, get the tailpiece to turn so you feel it will ultimately come off . If you can then you should be able to remove it. Then get a bronze or stainless (you can use plastic, not my choice) nipple fitting with a ball valve. Attach the nipple fitting to the seacock, attach the valve to the nipple fitting, re-attach the tailpiece to the valve and put on a new hose.

Good luck.
Good advice, thanks.

It all seemed simpler to me....
24" hose (less in line bronze ball valve length) fitted to the strainer, bung hose thats still fitted to seacock, then uncrew hose clamps at seacock, possibly cut hose off seacock if its stuck and slip on new hose while water is intruding. tighten clamps.
I really can't see how that can't be done safely in the water. With another person for backup on my boat.
__________________
endoftheroad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2013, 09:37   #39
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: La la Land
Boat: 37' Oyster Heritage
Posts: 410
Re: Sea Cock Won't Open or Close

Keep a softwood plug nearby (best practice for all seacocks) and wait till you haul.

If there's a problem with the impeller, pull the hose off at the engine end and stuff the plug in whilst you fix things. Prepare properly and you won't get much water in the boat.

Alternatively stuff the bung in from outside and then take the offending seacock apart at your leisure.
__________________
sestina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2013, 09:51   #40
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cruising the east coast and Bahamas
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 228
Re: Sea Cock Won't Open or Close

Your boat, your call. One thing I might add (and you're probably already thinking about this) is to make sure the new 24" piece of hose is held so it terminates above the waterline. If not, then clamp on an extension so it does. That way you only have one time-sensitive task at a time: get the old hose off (pry or cut) and the new hose one. with the other end above the waterline, you'll be able to catch your breath before the next step.
__________________
Greg Long
s/v Paperbird
www.paperbird.us
Paperbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2013, 10:06   #41
Registered User
 
endoftheroad's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Key West
Boat: Westsail 32 and Herreshoff 28
Posts: 1,159
Re: Sea Cock Won't Open or Close

Thanks everyone, great help, much appreciated.

One last thing, I have many wooden plugs but I'm not sure how they work (waterside) with my hull opening as there are 2 inner tabs at 180 degrees from eachother (if i remember correctly).
How can a wooden plug be effective with these intrusions inside the thruhull?
__________________
endoftheroad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2013, 10:27   #42
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,375
Re: Sea Cock Won't Open or Close

You need a good soft plug that will form around those two nubs. Most sailboats dont have a strainer on the outside, does yours? For a temporary fix I would just use a gate valve or ball valve. The gate valve will take less room in the hose. I would have the hose and valve assembled and ready, then (after pounding in the plug!) get the old hose off and get it on fast as possible. But as mentioned above... what else might need servicing...? Good time to haul and get the seacocks lubed properly etc etc...
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2013, 11:00   #43
Registered User
 
endoftheroad's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Key West
Boat: Westsail 32 and Herreshoff 28
Posts: 1,159
Re: Sea Cock Won't Open or Close

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
You need a good soft plug that will form around those two nubs. Most sailboats dont have a strainer on the outside, does yours? For a temporary fix I would just use a gate valve or ball valve. The gate valve will take less room in the hose. I would have the hose and valve assembled and ready, then (after pounding in the plug!) get the old hose off and get it on fast as possible. But as mentioned above... what else might need servicing...? Good time to haul and get the seacocks lubed properly etc etc...
Thanks.
Not much else needs servicing. I'm in pretty good shape except for this seized seacock. No I do not have an outboard strainer.
Are you saying you wouldn't attempt this project without plugging thruhull water side?
I'm sorry to ask but I don't know the physics of the water pressure under 22,000lbs.
I surely wouldn't attempt without a second person present.
__________________
endoftheroad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2013, 11:11   #44
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cruising the east coast and Bahamas
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 228
Re: Sea Cock Won't Open or Close

I routinely experience the physics up close and personal - we pull the knotmeter impeller and replace it with a blank each time we leave the boat. No matter how many times I do it, the geyser that comes up from that "hole in the boat" is a real adrenaline rush!
__________________
Greg Long
s/v Paperbird
www.paperbird.us
Paperbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2013, 11:16   #45
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,375
Re: Sea Cock Won't Open or Close

I'd be a little reluctant to do it in the water myself. But people do do it. I see you're in Key West, so getting in the water shouldnt be a hardship. I really dont know how you would do it without plugging it water side.....? A plug should stem most of the flow. Have another handy in case an emergency occurs you can put a plug on the inside. Good wire wound hose goes on most fittings hard.. and may come off hard. You need time to clean the hose barb and get it on there properly. Is it a Groco ball valve type? If it's a tapered seacock, you could put a short plug in from the outside and try to free the seacock.
__________________

__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:56.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.