Restarting a Spectra water maker after 10 years?

[canadian cat]

Can I tell what the membrane was pickled with if I look at the discharge when I first turn it on?

[wrwakefield]

Originally Posted by canadian cat

Can I tell what the membrane was pickled with if I look at the discharge when I first turn it on?

The way mine is plumbed, the pickling liquid runs through the raw water pre-filter canisters on its way to everything else...

I do not know if all watermakers are similarly plumbed for the pickling cycle, but suspect they are...

Cheers! Bill

[mvmojo]

Originally Posted by canadian cat

Can I tell what the membrane was pickled with if I look at the discharge when I first turn it on?

If the initial discharge is pink, it probably means it was pickled with pink antifreeze. Otherwise, who knows? But, more importantly, who cares? Just run it w/out pressure for an hour or two then increase the pressure, run it for another hour then sample the water. It's pretty much binary - go or no go with respect to product water quality. Best guess based on my experience is that you'll be fine!

[the dude abides]

OK this is an old thread but relevant to me. MY Spectra 200 was pickled 12 years ago. I suspect the membrane is 14 years old. Clark pump has not been used in all that time, it was fitted in 2000. I believe it was pickled properly. The fittings at the end of the membrane were copper - their integrity has compromised completely. I changed the 20 and 5 micron filters, the water pump seemed to be working fine, but then it was hard for me ascertain if the Clark high pressure pump was working still as it should - there was not much coming out in terms of fresh water. I then went to unscrew a fitting at the base of the housing for the membrane and it snapped off in my hand, copper fitting was corroded, so the fittings were gone so I figured I had to take the membrane out no matter what, so I did that.
My issue now is do I get a new membrane? I suspect the rings on the Clarke are gone but I am also not sure of the pressure it will produce. I rung a Spectra rep (I am based in Australia), he said he would have to test it and also change the rings and give it an overhaul - $1500 - then there is the new membrane and may be other bits and pieces so expect $2500-$3000. Then again I can buy a Rainman that is 18 months old from some older sailor who is giving up and producing twice as much water for $4000. To me that makes more sense, although there may be someone out there who has some advice to help me save some money. I am not time rich either at the moment as I am about to sail up the Great Barrier int he next month to Indonesia. All advice welcome - cheers. My tanks are 750 litres by the way so I have a bit, but Indo is not fresh water friendly by all accounts

[mvmojo]

Change out the fittings/hoses/etc. so that you don't have any leaks and give it a try. Mine was pickled for 10 years and it worked fine. Run it without any pressure for 20 minutes or so to flush everything and then run it for an hour at a high enough pressure to provide the rated product output for your membrane, with the product water going overboard. After an hour, sample the product water. My guess is that you'll have good water and can continue using the system. As long as the membrane doesn't get completely clogged with salt or bacteria, or is exposed to oil, you should be fine. If not, replace the membrane, but that's really a last resort...

[the dude abides]

so even though I have taken the membrane out of the housing there is a chance it could still be good to use. I just change to some decent stainless steel fittings and out it back together there may be a chance of it working? Willing to give it a go for sure, thanks. Sean

[Tellie]

I would NOT suggest you start this system up yet. The fittings that have deteriorated are nickle bronze, not copper, and can leave hard deposits that can easily get into the Clark pump and score the cylinders and pistons. If this watermaker was in my shop I would first disassemble the entire Clark pump to check for any previous damage, which may be unlikely for a pump that has seen only 4 years of use, but to make sure any hard deposits are removed and the pump thoroughly cleaned. I would say with almost certainty that the membrane is toast and will need to be replaced as well as the feed pump head itself as these are a rubber diaphragm pump and dry rot is probably going to make it useless after 12 years of storage. Even in the unlikely chance this watermaker fires up I can assure you the membrane and pump head will fail in short order. Of course all six of the high pressure fittings should be replaced. The first thing you should do is to remove both cylinders from the Clark pump and inspect for proper pickling and any damage such as scoring. Posting a few pictures here of this would help me determine your next course of action.

[the dude abides]

Thank you Tellie. I shall get some photos of the Clark pump tomorrow for you to have a look at and the feed pump. It seems to be very expensive here in Australia for servicing. makes me think I will get by till I get to the States.

[mvmojo]

Originally Posted by Tellie

Even in the unlikely chance this watermaker fires up I can assure you the membrane and pump head will fail in short order.

I can't comment on the Clark pump since my system uses the more common 3 cylinder high pressure pump, but as I stated above, my membrane was pickled for 10 years in a sodium metabisulfite solution. I fired it up and got good product water all summer long. I saw no reduction in water output and no deterioration in water quality. Pickled it again for the winter in pink anti-freeze and it fired up and gave good product water the next season. It has now been pickled for 2 years in pink anti-freeze. I plan to use it again this summer and have no reason to believe it will cause any problems. I'm running one 40" membrane and one 20" membrane in series. I set system pressure to produce about 30 gph which is generally at about 800 psi.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by the dude abides

Thank you Tellie. I shall get some photos of the Clark pump tomorrow for you to have a look at and the feed pump. It seems to be very expensive here in Australia for servicing. makes me think I will get by till I get to the States.

The prices quoted you do seem crazy expensive. In the USA Spectra used to do rebuild-exchange for US$500. That was a great deal which I got in on the tail end of...unfortunately its been discontinued.

However, rebuilding an undamaged Clark pump is not hard...it is an elegantly simple device. Provided its not damaged then its just disassembling, replacing seals, reassembling. Quite easy if its on a work bench. Rebuild documentation is available.

The membrane is a standard Dow Filmtech membrane which can be bought for under US$200.

[the dude abides]

I am confident it was pickled correctly as it was from the previous previous owner who completed 2 circumnavigations in 12 years of constant cruising (American guy incidentally who after he sold it bought a canal boat and cruised the canals of Europe for seven years afterwards - so a serious cruising boat person). He left so many spares, notes, invoices, every detail methodically recorded. Thats how I know the Clark was purchased in December 1999, then he had work done on it in 2004, pickled it in 2006. He set up a lot of the systems in the boat. The owner I bought it from did not touch it as he was just cruising up and down the coast in Australia and the tanks are 750 litres

[the dude abides]

wow - here I have been quoted $750 for the membrane and $1500 min for a service, but told to expect more. . Aussie dollar is not too far off the US dollar as well. Cheers

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by the dude abides

wow - here I have been quoted $750 for the membrane and $1500 min for a service, but told to expect more. . Aussie dollar is not too far off the US dollar as well. Cheers

Those rates sure make DIY an appealing option. I would look for a Dow membrane distributor (not your Spectra rep obviously) there to avoid import expenses, but even if it cost you 100% to import you are still ahead.

As I refered to above, first thing I would do is remove the main unit (clark pump and pressure vessel) and get them on a work bench...this makes the job way easier and less error prone.

The majority of the seals are just o-rings which could almost certainly be sourced locally (careful attention paid to material type of course).

[Mr O]

I also have an older Spectra Santa Cruz that was pickled in glycol for 1-1/2 years. With new prefilters installed, I ran it unpressurized for the rec amount of time and then pressurized. Tasted like glycol! Called Spectra and they suggested running pressurized for an hour or more. Did that twice with same result. TDS was fine but still tasted a bit like glycol. Do I replace membrane? It’s probably the original from 2001. Thx!

[Tellie]

Originally Posted by Mr O

I also have an older Spectra Santa Cruz that was pickled in glycol for 1-1/2 years. With new prefilters installed, I ran it unpressurized for the rec amount of time and then pressurized. Tasted like glycol! Called Spectra and they suggested running pressurized for an hour or more. Did that twice with same result. TDS was fine but still tasted a bit like glycol. Do I replace membrane? It’s probably the original from 2001. Thx!

Run it for a few more hours and it should eventually go away, or you can clean it with some SC-2.
Not long ago when we first started recommending PG as a storage solution (which I prefer). We tended to go a little strong on the concentration using PG-100 and first flushing the fresh water from the system. It's quite possible the higher PG concentration was used. This has a tendency to stick to the membrane surfaces and can take a few hours of constant running to get the taste out. Next time use two gallons of PG-50, give it a good fresh water flush for ten minutes, then attach your pickling hoses directly into the PG-50 bucket and leave the fresh water inside the machine to mix with the two gallons of PG-50. I find this to be the most effective at this time and it flushes off the membrane a lot sooner, usually within the twenty minute purging cycle.
Do this before contemplating a new membrane.