Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 23-07-2016, 12:11   #76
Liveaboard Cruiser
 
SV THIRD DAY's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Morro Bay, CA
Boat: 1978 Hudson Force 50 Ketch
Posts: 3,218
Send a message via Skype™ to SV THIRD DAY
Re: Refigeration Amp Hour usage survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by typhoon View Post
The last two dayshave been very hot up here . With the inside of the boat at 35 Celsius . These turned out to be my worst amp hour days . 38 Ah . No alchemy here . Just counting . I have yet to insulate my two top doors which I will do this week with aerogell . The doors actually feel cold to the touch so there is a lot of btu's going up up and away from there .
Where is what I love about Typhoon's real live data and numbers.

There are "experts" out there that will tell you and argue with you forever that his numbers are impossible to get at the ambient temp and box size he has. It can't be done they will scream from the rooftops while banging their chests. It's the same folks that say our published data of 24AH for a 7CF box 1/3 freezer and 2/3 refrigerator with R30 insulation at 70-degs ambient are faked or bogus or a lie. Of course our test box is running right now at the office showing these results, but I'm somehow an evil villain spreading lies, heck...I'm akin to an ISIS fanatic for even suggesting such craziness...(you should see some of the crazy PMs I get)

Carry on Amigo...
I love seeing real life test data trump the naysayers!

Not back to my deck project after tossing in a few Flash-Bangs, but it's natures release...
__________________

__________________
Rich Boren Living Aboard in Morro Bay, CA and the owner of:
Cruise RO Water High Output Water Makers
Technautics CoolBlue Refrigeration

SV THIRD DAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-07-2016, 12:26   #77
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 12,894
Refigeration Amp Hour usage survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Thanks again Chala, I really think there must be a fault with the thermostat. I did have the compressor cycling about a week ago. We then went into some really hot weather (low/mid 30C, and high humidity). Since then it's refused to cycle off. Our whole setup is old, and I'm sure we're not as well insulated as we could/should be. The radiator is also caked in some plastered dust. It's in an inaccessible area, so hard to get at and clean ... but I'll try that next.



Anyway, we're on board all the time now. And with sun in the sky we can keep up with the draw, so we're basically running all day and shutting off overnight. Things stay cool enough. Once we're done for the season I'll take a stab at some real testing/maintenance/surgery. Hard to do when the box is full of beer .


What your calling the radiator is I believe the condenser, if it choked in dust that could very well cause your problem, it's job as you know is to get rid of the heat, and allow the gas to phase change into a liquid, and the of course the liquid evaporates in the evaporator, and that phase change absorbs heat, heat that is supposed to be dissipated in your clogged condenser.
As it is, your system is working hard now and likely at higher than desired pressures, you would do it a great favor by cleaning the condenser, a good kitchen spray and water and maybe a soft brush should do it.
They are always in a nearly inaccessible spot, mine is too.



Sent from my iPad Pro using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________

__________________
a64pilot is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 23-07-2016, 14:19   #78
Registered User
 
zboss's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: On a boat
Boat: Cabo Rico 38
Posts: 3,103
Re: Refigeration Amp Hour usage survey

My values are definitely not guessed... We have a stainless lobster that shows how much power was used the last 24 hours in both graph form and digital readout. It also shows a graph of the last 24 hour temp, the cycle %, and so on. We can even have it boost the output to cool down further when the batteries reach a certain voltage. It also automatically defrosts the fridge when not used in a spillover situation. Includes a circulation fan and led lights as well!

The catch is... It only is certified to work with certain model compressors.

http://stainlesslobster.com/


Follow us on tikitreksailing.com
__________________
zboss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-07-2016, 14:40   #79
Liveaboard Cruiser
 
SV THIRD DAY's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Morro Bay, CA
Boat: 1978 Hudson Force 50 Ketch
Posts: 3,218
Send a message via Skype™ to SV THIRD DAY
Re: Refigeration Amp Hour usage survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by zboss View Post
My values are definitely not guessed... We have a stainless lobster that shows how much power was used
The Stainless Lobster device is Great.
We tested one for several months in our test box and worked with Arvid the cruiser/owner/developer to develop a unit for Holding plate systems like ours vs just the thin rolled Aluminum evaporation plates. The defrost cycle doesn't really work on holding plate systems because of the holdover capacity nature of how they work (you don't defrost them), but it worked great on alum evaporators and the other features are very useful.

What I really like about the system for use on holding plates is the ability to "store" more energy in the holding plate when it is available either from Solar or while running the engine. That way you will use less energy when the charge source goes away. The amount of energy you can save will really vary based on how often you are in the charge battery voltage range on your boat. A boat for example that never has his batteries above the user-settable "charge voltage" won't really have any energy savings. While a boat that goes into float mode often from solar and does lots of short motor trips or generator charging runs, that use profile can save on power.

The Big bonus of the Stainless Lobster approach is DATA...if finally gives the cruiser the ability to know and start to understand just what is going on with that remotely mounted compressor. Graphs, Data logger, it's a techys wet dream and I have had one running on my fridge and freezer on my boat now for a while and love it. It doesn't have an Amp meter actually measuring the Amps inside of it, but rather the brain has the Amp draw vs Compressor speed programed into it. So by knowing the speed of the compressor it knows the Amps usage and can totalize it for you.
__________________
Rich Boren Living Aboard in Morro Bay, CA and the owner of:
Cruise RO Water High Output Water Makers
Technautics CoolBlue Refrigeration

SV THIRD DAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-07-2016, 19:35   #80
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29 49.16 N 82 25.82 W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 11,379
Re: Refigeration Amp Hour usage survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
Where is what I love about Typhoon's real live data and numbers.

There are "experts" out there that will tell you and argue with you forever that his numbers are impossible to get at the ambient temp and box size he has. It can't be done they will scream from the rooftops while banging their chests. It's the same folks that say our published data of 24AH for a 7CF box 1/3 freezer and 2/3 refrigerator with R30 insulation at 70-degs ambient are faked or bogus or a lie. Of course our test box is running right now at the office showing these results, but I'm somehow an evil villain spreading lies, heck...I'm akin to an ISIS fanatic for even suggesting such craziness...(you should see some of the crazy PMs I get)

Carry on Amigo...
I love seeing real life test data trump the naysayers!

Not back to my deck project after tossing in a few Flash-Bangs, but it's natures release...
Hey Rich,

Here's another real world, measured usage that's pretty darn close to those numbers. My box it a little bigger, about 9 cu ft but about 1/5 freezer. In Florida winter with 70s day, 50-60 night temps I'm using about 25-30 amp hours/day. That's measured draw with no charging source connected. Summer with ambient in the mid 90s and the boat closed up so 10-20 hotter inside I'm using closer to 50.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-07-2016, 20:15   #81
Liveaboard Cruiser
 
SV THIRD DAY's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Morro Bay, CA
Boat: 1978 Hudson Force 50 Ketch
Posts: 3,218
Send a message via Skype™ to SV THIRD DAY
Re: Refigeration Amp Hour usage survey


Bingo...
One doesn't have to spend 100AH/day to have cold beer!
__________________
Rich Boren Living Aboard in Morro Bay, CA and the owner of:
Cruise RO Water High Output Water Makers
Technautics CoolBlue Refrigeration

SV THIRD DAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-07-2016, 03:09   #82
Senior Cruiser
 
StuM's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Port Moresby,Papua New Guinea
Boat: FP Belize Maestro 43
Posts: 5,046
Re: Refigeration Amp Hour usage survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
Well enough Anecdotal examples and you get somewhere...but that's the hard part...getting an accurate sample of cruisers.

This I can tell you, add more solar until you have no room for more...then squeeze on more. Solar panels are like Garlic...you can't have too much. We went from 260W...to 430W...and now have 1300W...finally enough!

For now
__________________
StuM is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24-07-2016, 03:25   #83
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Boat: Island Packet 40
Posts: 1,280
Images: 7
Re: Refigeration Amp Hour usage survey

Engine fuel consumption and fridge amp hours are the two fish stories of the yachting world. I am sure we have all heard them. "I have a V16 which puts out 1,000hp and only uses 1/2 a gallon of diesel an hour whilst driving my sixty footer at 10 knots." and "I have a walk in freezer which will keep a bulls carcase at minus 60, runs all night and through the summer on a 100 amp hour battery with a 40 watt panel etc, etc"
__________________
RaymondR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-07-2016, 05:43   #84
Registered User
 
skipgundlach's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Currently on the boat, somewhere on the ocean, living the dream
Boat: Morgan 461 S/Y Flying Pig
Posts: 1,195
Send a message via Skype™ to skipgundlach
Re: Refigeration Amp Hour usage survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
I agree....Skip's Unit's power usage is just crazy a water cooled BD80 with his box size and type of insulation just shouldn't be using those type of numbers. I've spent lots of back and forth time trying to help...but just had to admit that I couldn't figure it out without being on the boat myself. Heck if Skip will have cold beer for me, I will offer to do that the next time I am in Florida!
Hey, Rich!

I hope and pray that we'll actually be cruising during our first Commodore season when the annual SSCA meeting happens.

However, if we're not, we'll be there, and Melbourne's only an hour and change away from where Flying Pig would be moored.

I'll definitely take you up on your offer, give you the Vee to sleep on the Tempur-Pedics, and take you to dinner, let alone a beer.

And, as I type, I've got the freezer asking for zero at the plate, and it can't do it, just after (box frozen for a couple of days, now) a defrost. I'd been sent the wrong thermostat manual; that affected my accuracy in box settings...

Back to capacity, at 'auto', I never saw it shut off. I went to 'high' and never saw it shut off. So, I went to 'medium' and the indicated box temp rose slightly as it still never shut off.

Given that the plates were reading zero when, in fact, the cutoff had been set for +5, I suspect that if I shot the plates, I'd find them well into negative territory despite it not having reached the cycle point. But it's not cold enough that we don't still have the spillover fan run occasionally (the reefer creeps up a couple of degrees over many hours; during other tests, we got it cold enough that the reefer stayed at or just under 32F, not cycling at 34 as designed).

So, I look forward to seeing you again soon, and thanks for the boost into Commodore (a board member has to sign off on the application, for those not familiar with the process; Rich is a board member)!
__________________
Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig, KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery!
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
skipgundlach is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24-07-2016, 09:16   #85
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Raritan Bay
Boat: Morris Justine
Posts: 44
Re: Refigeration Amp Hour usage survey

I don't know how many amp hours per day my fridge consumes because I don't have an isolated amp meter on it. I do have a link 10 that tells me total boat amp hours consumed.

I calculate that my fridge was using about 70 amp/hours over night (when there is no solar charging, thus easier to measure). I felt this was high so I worked on my box insulation this spring. After realizing that a complete box rebuild was way too big a project I followed some good advice I found on this forum. I added 2 layers of Aerogel on 3 of the sides, the bottom and in the cover.

There are still spots with poor insulation, but overall I improved things a lot. Now I'm seeing about 25 amp hours drain overnight.

This is with about an 8 cubic foot box and a bd35 Seafrost unit.
__________________
MooGroc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24-07-2016, 19:49   #86
Registered User
 
chala's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: gone sailing Australia
Boat: RR370
Posts: 1,299
Re: Refigeration Amp Hour usage survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
I really think there must be a fault with the thermostat.
Another thing that you can check is that. The sensor of a thermostat is often attached to the suction pipe near the evaporator or at the evaporator. It is nomally easy to check if the sensor as become detached.

Quote:
Originally Posted by typhoon View Post
Design your systems properly , make sure they are running right .
No black arts needed. ��
So true, so simple no need of smoke stack theory.
Every motor is built for a nominated power output. The power output of the compressor on my freezer is rated at 240V 0.8A 0.8pf ac, this equal to 153.6W which is a little more than a BD 35, 50 or 80.
To be remembred, at a higher voltage an electrical motor use less amps, at a lower voltage it use more amps. On a dc system as the voltage change, the amps also change, to be more accurate, VA should be used insted of A.
On a 240V 5 kW ac genset used for cooking, charging batteries, etc, 160W is peanuts.
On main engine with a 24V 80A/12V 80A system 160W at 28V is also not a problem.
On the 24V 100A batteries, with an 1200 W inverter, 160W at 28V decreasing, for a running time of an half to one hour, is also not a problem.
To be noted the inverter display accurate dc A, VA and V.
__________________
chala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-07-2016, 20:03   #87
Registered User
 
chala's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: gone sailing Australia
Boat: RR370
Posts: 1,299
Re: Refigeration Amp Hour usage survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
but rather the brain has the Amp draw vs Compressor speed programed into it. So by knowing the speed of the compressor it knows the Amps usage and can totalize it for you.
Good to know that something got some brain.
__________________
chala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-07-2016, 22:23   #88
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Galena, MD
Boat: Hunter Vision 32
Posts: 47
Re: Refigeration Amp Hour usage survey

How does one measure these things?
__________________
SqPeg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-07-2016, 22:58   #89
Liveaboard Cruiser
 
SV THIRD DAY's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Morro Bay, CA
Boat: 1978 Hudson Force 50 Ketch
Posts: 3,218
Send a message via Skype™ to SV THIRD DAY
Re: Refigeration Amp Hour usage survey

Wise man say,
It's only too much power if you can't make more.
Solar is cheap and life is too short to drink warm beer.
__________________
Rich Boren Living Aboard in Morro Bay, CA and the owner of:
Cruise RO Water High Output Water Makers
Technautics CoolBlue Refrigeration

SV THIRD DAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-07-2016, 05:00   #90
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29 49.16 N 82 25.82 W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 11,379
Re: Refigeration Amp Hour usage survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by SqPeg View Post
How does one measure these things?
There may be other ways but for me I installed battery monitor that keeps track of amps in/out, battery voltage, etc. Of course I installed it primarily to monitor the batteries but it is useful for measuring usage of different devices on the system and other things as well. The brand and model I have is a Victron 602.

I just turned off all other electrical devices, zeroed the amp counter and checked it again 24 hours later. Did this a few times under different conditions to confirm the data.

If you don't have a battery monitor but have a Volt meter that will measure amps you can guestimate your use by measuring how many amps the fridge is drawing when the compressor is running. The keep track of how often and how long the compressor runs, multiple the average amp reading by the total time the compressor runs in hours and you have the total amp hour usage.
__________________

__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
survey

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Grunert Refigeration problem onehalfmoon Construction, Maintenance & Refit 1 16-12-2012 21:46
Currents: Scroll Through Hour-by-Hour Chart View prjacobs OpenCPN 8 27-08-2010 12:16
Water intake for ice box compressor - 12 refigeration sailingpeanut Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 5 16-08-2008 03:30
Refigeration engcon Liveaboard's Forum 3 03-01-2007 12:39
DIY refigeration: Pros & Cons? Weyalan Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 23 11-09-2006 06:47


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 15:24.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.