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Old 19-05-2019, 13:01   #1
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Raritan Elegance headache

Our fabulous Raritan Elegance began leaking at the vacuum breaker which I removed to see if there was a water strainer inside that might be causing the problem. No filter. So next I checked our systemís water pressure (fresh dock water) and noticed that it somehow soared higher than I normally keep it in our lines. That pressure was 60psi which dropped to about 50 with water flowing. So I reduced the pressure to 50psi where I normally operate which again has about a 10 psi drop with water flowing.

Replaced the vacuum breaker and tried flushing the toilet. Leak? Immediately! Much worse than before. OK, of course my next action is to purchase a new vacuum breaker and hope for the best. But what caused the original problem? The breaker is a very simple device, I donít see much that can go wrong with the beast.
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Old 19-05-2019, 13:28   #2
Tim. Keith-Lucas

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Re: Raritan Elegance headache

Did you ream out the little hole?
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Old 19-05-2019, 13:29   #3
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Re: Raritan Elegance headache

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Did you ream out the little hole?

Maybe THATS my problem. WHAT HOLE?
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Old 19-05-2019, 13:39   #4
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Re: Raritan Elegance headache

The owners manual only provides the minimum water pressure needed, but no mention of any maximum. However, dock water is usually at least twice as high as most boat plumbing can stand, which is why a pressure reducer has to be installed to use it all. But I'm inclined to suspect that it still may be too high for the toilet. So before replacing any parts, you need to talk with Raritan Tech support (800-352-5630. Try to talk with Mac McCoy...his extension is 306.


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Old 19-05-2019, 13:45   #5
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Re: Raritan Elegance headache

Peggy, itís leaking soo badly now, Iíll just order a new one. There are a couple of Ďoí rings in the thing that could be causing the problem. Thank you for responding. I did read an earlier post when you answered a similar problem back in 2015. That is the only post I have found pertaining to an Elegance problem.

Of course prior to placing my order I will take your advise to speak to someone at their tech support.
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Old 20-05-2019, 04:44   #6
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Re: Raritan Elegance headache

With no where near the "Elegance," I tried to run Jabsco heads with freshwater from the boat system rather than with sea water. What I found was that the head assumed a very low pressue or negative pressure source; 35 psi water came through the pump and flooded the toilet. I ended up adding a valve to the system; water pressue only during flushing.

Siphon breaks on toilets and fire engines priming pumps in my experience work by leaking air into the vacuum with a tiny hole at the top of an arch in the system. Are you talking about something different here? If so, I apologize for the intrusion.
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Old 20-05-2019, 05:25   #7
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Re: Raritan Elegance headache

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With no where near the "Elegance," I tried to run Jabsco heads with freshwater from the boat system rather than with sea water. What I found was that the head assumed a very low pressue or negative pressure source; 35 psi water came through the pump and flooded the toilet. I ended up adding a valve to the system; water pressue only during flushing.

Siphon breaks on toilets and fire engines priming pumps in my experience work by leaking air into the vacuum with a tiny hole at the top of an arch in the system. Are you talking about something different here? If so, I apologize for the intrusion.
First........ NO apologies needed. Forums such as this are intended to share ideas, suggestions and even requests for help from anyone. Back to the vacuum breaker. I'll try to describe it from memory, not on our boat today. It mechanically resembles a T such as those used in plumbing but rotated 90 degrees |-- .

Water hose is connected to the bottom and flows into the toilet from the horizontal opening. The top has a plastic top with vent holes and below it an internal plunger with a rubber gasket. The applied water pressure against the piston forces it upward where its rubber gasket seals against the plastic top preventing water from leaking out the vent holes. When the water pressure is removed the piston drops, venting air into the cylinder forming a vacuum break.

My problem appears to be related to the seal between the piston's rubber gasket and the top not making a good seal stopping water leaks out the large holes in the plastic top. Yes I tried cleaning everything. The leak just got worse. Going to order a new device this morning. Thank you for taking the effort to reply.

I just ordered a new vacuum breaker from Raritan after speaking to one of their techs as Peggy suggested.
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Old 20-05-2019, 06:16   #8
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Re: Raritan Elegance headache

Sea water toilets are not designed to be connected to the fresh water plumbing. Sea water toilets have an intake pump...fresh water toilets do not, they have a valve that opens and closes to allow pressurized water to enter the bowl via a fitting at the top of the bowl, similar to what a opening and closing a faucet on a sink does. The 35 psi that pushed the water into the bowl is the amount pressure your water generates. Some fresh water toilets have a built in solenoid valve that does this...Jabsco uses a solenoid valve on the vented loop in the intake. Without one there's nothing to stop the flow of water into the bowl unless you manually turn off the water at the pump. Installing the valve is what you should have done in the first place. Toilets designed to use pressurized flush water also have a built-in backflow preventer to prevent water from the bowl from leaking into the potable water supply when the water pump is off, ceasing to pressurize the water.



As for siphon breaks (vented loops)...that tiny hole at the top is where an air valve belongs. Installed in electric sea water toilets, a solenoid valve is needed to open and close it to create the siphon breaks...it's controlled by water pressure in manual toilets.



Fwiw, because of the risk of contaminating the potable water supply and also because sea water toilets are designed to PULL water into the the pump, which then pushes it into the bowl, while pressuized flush water is PUSHED directly into the bowl via the fitting at top of it, all toilet mfrs specifically warn against connecting sea water toilets to the boat's fresh water system in their installation instructions.



Perhaps you should have read the installation instructions for both your sea water Jabsco and the comparable pressurized flush water version to learn the difference in how they're plumbed before attempting to "convert" a toilet that really shouldn't have been.



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Old 20-05-2019, 06:41   #9
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Re: Raritan Elegance headache

Peggy— if your above is directed to my attention, the Elegance that I purchased from Raritan is a fresh water toilet, and does have a solenoid to allow water flow only in one direction. I could have re-engineered the toilet to eliminate the vacuum protection device. I spent most of my life in engineering as a profession so I do not need to do more of it for a hobby.
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Old 20-05-2019, 14:30   #10
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Re: Raritan Elegance headache

No, it wasn't directed to you, foggy If you look carefully you'll see that it was a reply to tkiethlu as indicated in the list of posts.


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Old 20-05-2019, 14:57   #11
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Re: Raritan Elegance headache

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Old 20-05-2019, 15:02   #12
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Re: Raritan Elegance headache

Peggy—- I took your advise, used your posted phone number for Raritan and spoke to one of their techs. The answers I received were professional. Just having the phone number was a big help. My new vacuum breaker should be in the mail as I type. With a major holiday days away, I certainly want to have this all behind me before the weekend. Thanks again
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Old 20-05-2019, 17:53   #13
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Re: Raritan Elegance headache

Always glad to help when I can.



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Old 20-05-2019, 18:01   #14
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Re: Raritan Elegance headache

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<lol>!! When threads get long, it can sometimes be hard to tell the players even WITH a score card!



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Old 22-05-2019, 06:16   #15
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Re: Raritan Elegance headache

Thanks for the wisdom, Peggy. Where were you when I was building a boat on top of a mountain in Tennessee? The system I devised is awkward, but it can't leak backwards.
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