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Old 19-06-2011, 14:00   #61
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Re: PUR / Katadyn Watermaker Help from an Ex-Cruiser

We used a March pump on our water cooled refrigeration system.
It needed replacement every couple of years due to the brushes wearing out and not being replaceable.
FWIW, March now makes brushless pumps.
I wish they had made a 893-07 when we needed it!

Imho, March makes several brushless 12/24 volt pumps which would make good replacements for watermakers.
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Old 19-06-2011, 15:40   #62
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Re: PUR / Katadyn Watermaker Help from an Ex-Cruiser

My 40E is a factory retrofit from it's previous life as a R.E. Power Survivor 35. It was bought in '89, then after a cruise to the Bahamas it was stored for years while we were boatbuilding, then "converted", re-mounted in our new boat, and used for 15 years.

Now @ 22 years old it has had two seal kit changes. (2.5 hours each), and that's it. It works great on the original membrane, and provides all of our water needs while cruising, on solar energy alone.

Enjoy!

M.

BTW... Should anyone want one, I have a MANUAL SURVIVOR 35 for sale. It has no membrane, is old, and for safety sake I would replace the "o" ring seals. (2.5 hour job)
I am asking $200 for it... With a membrane, ($200 something through Defender), and the seal kit, (around $100), you would have $500 or so in a machine that retails for $2,000! With new seals and membrane, it would essentially be new! IF interested, send me a PM.
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Old 19-06-2011, 15:52   #63
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Re: PUR / Katadyn Watermaker Help from an Ex-Cruiser

I'm very interested in the 40E's manual pump option. Is this really practical? How much effort per litre of water are we really talking? I guess I'm concerned that I'll sweat out more than I make, though in an emergency situation I wouldn't need to make that much to survive. I guess I should extend the question to include the Survivor 06 for the liferaft. Practical?
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Old 19-06-2011, 16:28   #64
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Re: PUR / Katadyn Watermaker Help from an Ex-Cruiser

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwyckham View Post
I'm very interested in the 40E's manual pump option. Is this really practical? How much effort per litre of water are we really talking? I guess I'm concerned that I'll sweat out more than I make, though in an emergency situation I wouldn't need to make that much to survive. I guess I should extend the question to include the Survivor 06 for the liferaft. Practical?
On the manual "Survivor 35" I mention above... IF it was mounted to a bulkhead or something, OR if mounted to a padded knee plank, for your "ditch kit", then you have good body dynamics. I would think that you could then make around a gallon per hour or so. Making just a glass full every hour, would be a breeze.

It is not a practical solution for any but "emergency situations" where you are out of water, either from shipwreck or plumbing/planning SNAFUs. THEN it is worth it's weight in gold!
M.
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Old 21-06-2011, 17:17   #65
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Re: PUR / Katadyn Watermaker Help from an Ex-Cruiser

I've never dealt with a watermaker installation that included an intake supply from a pressurized source, with the exception of systems where a small centrifugal March pump has been installed inline as part of Katadyn's "Silt Reduction" system. In the latter case, the intake pressure is pretty minimal. On the other hand, if you're talking about a fairly standard pressurized "house" fresh-water system, then you're probably talking about something like a ShureFlo pump which, I believe, maintains about 40 psi line pressure. That's a lot. My best advice is to try it and see how it works. Be sure to test not only the quantity, but also the quality, of the product water. Offhand, I can't think of any reason why it shouldn't work O.K. The specs for the prefilter housing, interestingly enough, only cover positive pressures applied to the housing. The manufacturers actually don't provide any specs whatsoever on how those housings should stand up to pressures below atmospheric, which is the usual situation in most installations. I think you've already discovered that the prefilter apparatus is the most likely place to have leaks in a situation like you've described.

Yes, a "compression tank" (more commonly called an "accumulator bottle") is always a good idea with a pressure water system. It should dramatically increase the life of the pressure switch on the pump. Just remember to drain the water out of it periodically, since the air inside tends to dissolve in the water over time and reduce the accumulator's effectiveness.
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Old 21-06-2011, 17:29   #66
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Question Re: PUR / Katadyn Watermaker Help from an Ex-Cruiser

Hmmm...

My post #65 is in response to an email I just received informing me that someone had posted a question. After I posted my response, I was not able to see the original question post. So, for the benefit of those who might be wondering what the heck I'm talking about, here is the text of the original question. I don't know what happened to it:
Code:
Dear ishipaco,

gauvins has just replied to a thread you have subscribed to entitled - PUR / Katadyn Watermaker Help from an Ex-Cruiser - in the Plumbing Systems and Fixtures forum of Cruisers & Sailing Forums.

This thread is located at:
PUR / Katadyn Watermaker Help from an Ex-Cruiser - Page 5 - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

Here is the message that has just been posted:
***************
Hi.

[Sorry for your loss, impressed by your dedication]

I am installing a 40E. For the first year at least, the unit will be located in the galley so we can monitor how things are going.

What are your thoughts on connecting the 40E intake at the salt water pump that is feeding the galley?

I tested it today. First, it helped locating a leak in the pre filter unit (somehow I got the impression that I was shipped an open box item -- the pre filter had two connectors already installed, permatexed, but they were not tightened properly (freely rotating in the lid...)) Second, pressurized intake appears to increase the output of the 40E. 

It looks like the addition of a compression tank in order to prevent the incessant start/stop of the galley pump (Par-Max 2.9) would make things run quite efficiently.
***************


There may also be other replies, but you will not receive any more notifications until you visit the forum again.

All the best,
Cruisers & Sailing Forums
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Old 10-07-2011, 09:32   #67
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Re: PUR / Katadyn Watermaker Help from an Ex-Cruiser

Hello and thank you for providing such a wonderful feedback to the community.

I have an interesting question about a PUR40E which I purchased in late 1999 for a trip to the Marshall Islands for which is worked perfectly and then the return trip via Midway in late 2001.

It was "pickled" for the last time in about 2003 and has been sitting ever since in a box ashore waiting for the next adventure.

The total number of hours on the unit is less than 500 (I put an hour meter on it).

So, the question is... Do I take the unit apart for a seal kit and general working through? I am wondering about the potential for corrosion inside the unit which could be a problem if I just run it.

I have not had the unit apart for seals yet and it still has the original membrane which was producing water nicely last I used the unit.

So, why now... I am currently getting ready to re-install the watermaker on my new boat as a backup watermaker. One interesting quirk is that the new boat is 24V so I am going to have to use a DC to DC converter to make 13.6V power for it but that should not be a problem.

Any suggestions or advice is most appreciated!

Thanks

David
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Old 11-07-2011, 22:09   #68
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Thumbs up Re: PUR / Katadyn Watermaker Help from an Ex-Cruiser

David:

If, (1) when last used, your watermaker was running well and producing good product water and (2) you biocided it before storage and (3) it only had about 500 total hours of use, then simply hook up the power and hoses and run it. If it still produces good water, you're in business. I wouldn't worry about internal corrosion.

Also don't worry about having to do a seal repair job unless running the unit reveals some problem(s) that would require that. It would be best if you could get a quantitative assessment of product water using a TDS meter, as opposed to a mere qualitative "taste test." If you're going cruising and want to really stay on top of your watermaker's condition, there's really no substitute for a TDS meter but, warning: stay away from the cheap Chinese testers. I recommend Hanna TDS meters, or one of similar quality.

The factory recommends a stored unit to be biocided again annually, but I suspect that's more to assure that the membrane doesn't dry out rather than kill fresh bacteria (after all, where would new bacteria come from, unless the unit had been run again and thereby contaminated.) Factory personnel have told me of membranes stored on the shelf for years without annual biociding, without any problems. Most critical in such cases is to ensure that the storage container is air-tight, to prevent eventual drying out of the membrane; THAT will destroy the membrane!

So, just try running it and see what you get. No harm done. Let us know how things turn out, O.K.?
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Old 12-07-2011, 08:39   #69
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Re: PUR / Katadyn Watermaker Help from an Ex-Cruiser

Thank you very much for the information on an older unit which has not been run for some time.

I do remember a small squeek after running for 15+ minutes which would go away if I lubricated the cylinder so I assumed at the time that the salt water seal on the pump side of the piston might need some attention but it did not seem to be an issue other than needing occasional lubrication.

Is it worth trying to replace just that seal once I determine the overall status of the unit.

Thanks

David
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Old 12-07-2011, 19:29   #70
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Cool Re: PUR / Katadyn Watermaker Help from an Ex-Cruiser

David:

I don't see any reason you should need to replace the shaft seal unless you discover something wrong during a test run.

With that said, however, I always think it's a good idea to do a tear-down and rebuild once before going cruising, if you never have before. It's good to know how it's done, and better done while stateside and within easy reach of parts and/or help.

One thing to determine: since your unit is rather old, I'm assuming it's a PUR unit, not Katadyn. Is that correct? If it's a PUR, make sure you don't have the original piston shaft with the ceramic coating on it. If you have that, you'll definitely want to replace it before heading out to sea. You can learn all about that problem at my website: http://www(dot)katadyn(dot)ishipaco(dot)com/docs/PUR_Info.html#Piston.
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Old 13-07-2011, 22:44   #71
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Re: PUR / Katadyn Watermaker Help from an Ex-Cruiser

Quote:
Originally Posted by ishipaco View Post
David:

I don't see any reason you should need to replace the shaft seal unless you discover something wrong during a test run.

With that said, however, I always think it's a good idea to do a tear-down and rebuild once before going cruising, if you never have before. It's good to know how it's done, and better done while stateside and within easy reach of parts and/or help.

One thing to determine: since your unit is rather old, I'm assuming it's a PUR unit, not Katadyn. Is that correct? If it's a PUR, make sure you don't have the original piston shaft with the ceramic coating on it. If you have that, you'll definitely want to replace it before heading out to sea. You can learn all about that problem at my website: http://www(dot)katadyn(dot)ishipaco(dot)com/docs/PUR_Info.html#Piston.
Interesting, I will definitely go and read through the information, I seem to remember it being a stainless shaft rather than the ceramic, but I will definitely take a look. I did purchase a complete seals kit and the like when I bought the watermaker and I remember waiting for it to arrive as they had to wait for an order from the factory in Nov of 1999 so perhaps they had already made the change.

I suspect I will probably do a tear down in the near future just to be sure I know how to do it. I have downloaded the video to go through. Probably next month, too much sailing this month!

David
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Old 19-07-2011, 07:20   #72
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Re: PUR / Katadyn Watermaker Help from an Ex-Cruiser

Hello Ishipaco and all,
Great thread!
I just recently purchased a used 80E.
I want to install the membrane and use the "u-shaped", high-pressure, stainless tube on the outlet side of the membrane. This would make my particular install a bit easier. However, I can only find pics showing that tube on the inlet side of the membrane.
Does it matter?
If the hoses are high-pressure rated, does one even need the steel tube?
Thanks for all your helpful tips!!!
Cheers,
Brian
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Old 20-07-2011, 08:19   #73
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Re: PUR / Katadyn Watermaker Help from an Ex-Cruiser

...more importantly...
it appears the unit I bought is a Pur 80, not the Katadyn, but, I'm not sure.
It looks a bit different than all the pics in the manuals I'm seeing.
Why does it appear to have 2 hose barbs coming off the reject section?
One plumbed in to through hull drain (with ball valve), one plumbed to a section of hose for the "bypass rig" (also with ball valve)?
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Old 23-07-2011, 23:14   #74
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Re: PUR / Katadyn Watermaker Help from an Ex-Cruiser

Hello Gary,
If memory serves me (always questionable), I believe that we met while moored at NanaJuana in Rio Dulce in Sept 08. We had just taken JAMU (Leopard 42) out of charter and were beginning our upgrades. We're sorry to hear about your loss of Ishi.
I took your recommendation on the PowerSurvivor and installed a 160 with which we've been very satisfied. I installed the unit under the saloon seating where it's accessible and convenient for wiring and plumbing. We've had no trouble with it whatsoever, running it at least every couple of days and pickling it for storage as per recommendations. Due to medical issues, we had to skip this sailing season and leave JAMU on the hard in Isla Mujeres. I did visit her in May (after 12 months of layup) for maintenance and re-pickled the watermaker. We'll return to sail in January. Would you recommend cleaning the membrane at that time (I've never used the chemical cleaner), or just start it up and see how the unit makes water?

The only improvement that I could wish for is sound reduction. The under-seat storage compartment where it is installed is fiberglass with no lining, and the pump hammer seems to reverberate. I intend to experiment with sound reduction - perhaps rubber isolation mounts and some type of lining for the compartment. Any recommendations along that line?

Cheers,
Joe Donnaway
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Old 31-08-2011, 10:19   #75
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Re: PUR / Katadyn Watermaker Help from an Ex-Cruiser

Hello Ishipaco and others. The contributions to this thread and especially from Ishipaco along with your web site, have provided me with a wealth of information while I plan the installation of my first watermaker, a PS40E. I've never seen a watermaker in operation, so this may be a dumb question, however you know what they say about not asking.

I have a plumbing question that I have not been able to find an answer to.
I'm installing the PS40E in close proximity to my Mermaid A/C unit. When installing the A/C I routed the condensate to a small open tub which contains a bilge pump that pumps the accumulated condensate out via a thru-hull mounted above the water line. I am contemplating teeing the reject brine discharge into the same bilge line. I would install a check-valve in the condensate portion of the line to prevent the discharge from draining back into the open condensate tub. This whole setup is safe, because, if I have a discharge problem, all discharge ends up in the main bilge, and does not damage anything.

My question is this. Is the reject brine discharge of sufficient force to exit via an above the waterline thru-hull? The distance would be about 4 feet with a total rise of about 18 inches. Any and all opinions are welcomed.
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