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Old 21-10-2007, 19:40   #1
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Pumping of POO

I have read a bunch the last few months and am in a quandary.

When I get a boat and am offshore (or at least a good ways out) I suppose I will not worry too much about emptying my holding tank - maybe - not really sure......yea pretty sure.......then again some guilt may rise within me and I will have to squeeze tight, IE, close the overboard seacock...I don't know.......what would you do?

I went on a cruise 25 years ago with the wife (honeymoon) and late one night with the wonderful moon and wife I were at the taffrail.

There we were, holding each other and looking out at the moon's reflection and talking about how beautiful all of life was..........when.........what the heck is that?.................

Well, as it was it was garbage detail.

The crew were throwing white plastic garbage bags (full) over the stern. In no time there was a beautiful moon and its reflection along with a trail of little white floating things as far as one could see. Too many to count. I am talking a lot of bags man, no lie, there were a LOT!

I was mad at them and was going to go straight to the Captain but I had my hands on the new wife.......and...........well........I sort of got distracted and all. But later I felt bad because I knew I was part of the reason those garbage bags were full. For sure I did not contribute as much as the other passengers (right!) as I have always been a little conservative in my use of things, etc.....really.......I have been.......am still.

SO,
All that story to return to the blackest of all subjects......POO.

I want to be relatively responsible (in my own mind) in my attempts to enjoy life even if it means destroying a little of the planet while I am at it.

You know, have a little fun, sail a fiberglass boat knowing full well that there was some serious chopping, mining, burning, etc to get it in my hands.

But that is in the past. Now I look to a future. My boat, capable of sailing away from all this pollution and crowds and smog and smell..........

I do have to eat though, and then guess what?

Yup, back to the POO question.

I read this:

To counter the claim that overboard discharge of treated sewage was an environmental hazard, defense attorney Day called Chuck Husick to the stand. Husick, a member of the Boat/US advisory committee, testified that discharge of treated waste from current waste treatment technology is consistently cleaner than the water into which it is being expelled.

here;

http://www.cruisersnet.net/index.php?categoryid=78&p2014_articleid=167

And I read this:


In BVI there are no toilet pump out stations so do not use the holding tanks

here;

http://sailingthecaribbean.com/Bareboat-instructions/heads%201-04.htm


I am beginning to think that if I use the right chemical and a mascerater then I should be pretty much guilt free if I can't squeeze tight any longer and open the overboard seacock.


SO,

Since I know I will still eat..........and............you know.........POO!

What is the real deal?
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Old 21-10-2007, 21:18   #2
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There is a heck of a difference between discharging PLASTIC trashbags (illegal ANYWHERE) and POOing in the big wide ocean. In case you haven't noticed, the animals that live out there do so all the time. Ever seen a sealion defecate? In the harbor - no, that wouldn't be kewl at all. But, consider - rain run off from civilization into our harbors and bays; and along the beaches ... Not to mention the 1.5 million gallon raw sewage "spills" by the US Navy in San Diego. .... the other myriad "accidental" spilling of raw sewage (by governments - no one else could get away with it) along our beaches.

And, technically, you can pee or poo to your heart's content (or body's whims) directly in the water - the law states you can't pump out...nothing about directly doing your thing.
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Old 21-10-2007, 21:55   #3
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Just let it go. It's fish food. Then if you catch a fish - it's the ultimate in recycling.

I don't know how long ago your honeymoon was, Therapy, but you should have reported the cruise line. Dumping plastics at sea is illegal anywhere.
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Old 21-10-2007, 22:13   #4
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Faecal coliforms do not survive in Seawater, Human excrement is not poison, fish love it, and as long as not too many boats are discharging in a small area with no tidal flow there just ain't a problem, contrary to what the authority's say. the chemicals used to treat sewage are probably more of a concern and a lo of local authoitys dont want treated sewage in their systems as it affects natural process of breakdown
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Old 22-10-2007, 02:34   #5
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Who said fish eat pooh?

I am going to stick to chicken.
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Old 22-10-2007, 03:16   #6
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Chickens are even less discrimanating than fish. The poo is where the extra flavor comes from.
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Old 22-10-2007, 03:19   #7
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Coprophagous Fish:
Coprophagia (the behavior of eating feces) may be derived from the carnivorous (meat-eating) heritage of certain animals. Carnivores frequently eat the internal organs and stomach contents (including poop) of the animals that they kill. As a result, eating the feces of other animals may be a normal extension of their carnivore behavior. There may be proteins and other nutrients in the feces that are eaten.

Fish Feces as Fish Food on a Pacific Coral Reef:
”... At least 45 fishes ate fish feces in addition to other foods ...”
http://www.int-res.com/articles/meps/7/m007p253.pdf
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Old 22-10-2007, 04:33   #8
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Quote:
I am beginning to think that if I use the right chemical and a mascerator then I should be pretty much guilt free if I can't squeeze tight any longer and open the overboard seacock.
The technology for treating waste requires some additional effort. The first item is the concept of treatment. At best any treatment would kill all the bacteria. Many municipal waste systems barely do that and some can't after it rains. For something like a pleasure boat a USCG approved MSD 2 system will do about as good a job as can be had. They use a combination of electricity and chloride to kill the bacteria of each load of waste and pump it overboard. The Electrosan unit uses common salt and the Purasan uses calcium chloride. The treatment units are about the size of a group 8 battery case so take less space than a holding tank and weigh far less than 20 gallons of waste.

Stored waste in a tank is about impossible to treat on a pleasure boat. The addition of chemicals alone fails because the chemicals needed are worse than the waste. MSD 2 systems treat one flush in about 2 minutes. The units run about $800 and require a macerating toilet. We are just completing the first season with ours and they work quite well.

After 3 miles out the better solution is not to save your waste. Just pump it directly overboard. Growing a culture of bacteria in a tank to later pump overboard is doing no environmental favors. Most of the 3rd world does not have adequate sewage treatment facilities to take your waste because they can't treat their own and many don't treat at all.
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Old 22-10-2007, 05:17   #9
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Originally Posted by Nauticatarcher View Post
Faecal coliforms do not survive in Seawater, Human excrement is not poison ...
There is evidence from a number of medical studies that exposure to sewage in seawater can cause gastro-enteritis, ear, nose and throat illnesses, skin infection. There is also evidence that viruses can survive in seawater many hours or days (including Polio, Hepatitis, HIV).

Two types of indicator bacteria commonly used for assessing water quality are faecal coliforms and enterococci:
Faecal coliforms are almost exclusively associated with faecal waste and so are
excellent indicators of faecal contamination. However, owing to their short survival times in sea water, they are limited to the detection of recent contamination.
Enterococci are a subgroup of faecal streptococci and include the organisms Streptococcus faecalis and S. faecium which are frequently found in humans. Enterococci survive for long periods in sea water and are therefore indicators of aged faecal contamination.
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Old 22-10-2007, 11:41   #10
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Hi Guy's
I admit I worry to, but after 12 years in the navy, and thinking about all the other ships that are around now, well we ditch it in deep water the salt kills the bad guys and the rest is just like compost that you use in the garden.

I am presently in a comunity that ditches all it's untreated wate in a river that runns through a full country. nearly ever other town that this river passes through in it's nearly 2000 miles before it reaches the coast does the same.
Dont throw plastic in the water and feel ok about it.

Steve
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Old 22-10-2007, 12:51   #11
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Victoria, BC uses the same sewage treatment method as Pakistan.
I always make sure to be out of the anchorage and somwhere with a good tide flow before pumping the tank.
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Old 22-10-2007, 12:58   #12
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You might want to be aware that when anchored in a cove full of boats in say, the BVIs', that every one will be pumping directly into the water you might be swimming in....
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Old 22-10-2007, 13:17   #13
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Sea gulls deposit millions of times more coeliform bacteria into the seas than do pleasure boats. Golf courses and fancy green lawns produce huge amounts of nitrogen runoff whenever it rains. When they pass laws to diaper sea gulls and ban fertilizers, I'll take this a little more seriously.
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Old 22-10-2007, 18:46   #14
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Thanks all.

That is sort of how I feel about it.

But if I ever get to charter or sail to a little anchorage with a lot of boats..........EEWWW!!.

Actually I was in the Tortugas about 25 years ago on my first cruise and in the morning I dove the rudder to see what the damage was (grounding on the previous moonless night) and thought the water was less clear than I thought it should be. Lots of tiny white particles in it......EEWWW!

Still here though.
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Old 22-10-2007, 19:41   #15
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