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04-03-2018, 19:45
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#46
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Port Moresby,Papua New Guinea
Boat: FP Belize Maestro 43 and OPBs
Posts: 12,888
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Re: Proposed human cycle powered watermaker
Quote:
Originally Posted by senormechanico
Tellie,
My Spectra 180 is working fine, but what the heck is a CHE?
I couldn't find it on spectra's website.
Steve
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Cape Horn Extreme, as per Tellie's earlier posts:
> Actually the most energy efficent 12V watermaker known is a Spectra Cape Horn Extreme
> I chose the CHE.
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04-03-2018, 19:57
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#47
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Port Moresby,Papua New Guinea
Boat: FP Belize Maestro 43 and OPBs
Posts: 12,888
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Re: Proposed human cycle powered watermaker
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04-03-2018, 20:18
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#48
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,398
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Re: Proposed human cycle powered watermaker
Our watermaker has it's high pressure pump belt driven by a @180 Watt motor.
I'd think it would be quite possible to set up a belt drive from an exercise bike.
There's also a very small lift pump, but that could still be run off 12 volts. It only draws around 2 amps.
__________________
"You CANNOT be serious!"
John McEnroe
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04-03-2018, 20:19
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#49
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Port Moresby,Papua New Guinea
Boat: FP Belize Maestro 43 and OPBs
Posts: 12,888
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Re: Proposed human cycle powered watermaker
Over here New Bike . . . .all Italian . . . . . (for Kenomac) - Cruisers & Sailing Forums
Evans said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by estarzinger
Regarding a different thread, on human powered watermakers . . . Beth can generate 100 watts FTP after biking (pretty 'hard' - eg sweat dripping and hard breathing) 30 minute every day for the past 9 months (indoors during the winter). I can generate about 200 watts FTP after several hours/day training the past 9 months (very roughly half what a pro can generate, also true for my short term power)
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Watts FTP is essentially what you can sustain for 45-60 minutes. So that's about 300Wh for the two of them doing a hard workout for an hour each.
Assuming an overall efficiency of about 6Wh/l by the time you've converted that mechanical energy to electrical, that's going to be about 50 litres per day max for two well above average crew who have been in hard training for months.
Alternatively, a 60-75W solar panel should be able to generate about the same energy per day without the losses incurred n converting mechanical to electrical energy and wthout all that sweat and pain
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04-03-2018, 23:27
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#50
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Brazil, Spain, The Netherlands
Boat: Boatless at the moment
Posts: 381
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Re: Proposed human cycle powered watermaker
Just a few more to cycle. ..
__________________
Ranulph Fiennes — 'There is no bad weather, only inappropriate clothing.'
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05-03-2018, 07:57
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#51
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Sponsoring Vendor
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hollywood, Fl.
Boat: FP Athena 38' Poerava
Posts: 3,984
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Re: Proposed human cycle powered watermaker
Quote:
Originally Posted by StuM
or rather, Watts/litre (since Amps is dependent on actual system voltage).
Which Spectra give as 4.2 for their dual pump Spectra Cape Horn 330 (I can't find figures for Tellie's "one pump" version. (Most 12V watermakers seem to run around 6-8 W/l)
(And I won't say anything further about his 7-8amp /hr )
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Sometimes we have to pick the hill we die on and after years of dealing with customers and boat owners it's just easier not to climb that hill most of the time. Giving basic electrical training to an owner that doesn't even own a multi meter much less how to use one can be a bit much, especially when their eyes are glazing over. I used to give out Nigel Caulders book Boatowners Mechanical and Electrical Manual as part of a new watermaker sale. It's a simple read that lays everything out for the beginner. Most of them collected more dust than being opened. Now, I just leave that for those that need to be very specific and are really interested in electrical terminology and the accuracy it provides. But true to point, Spectras website does not post those figures for only one pump on the CapeHornExtreme. They should and I will mention that to them because I agree it is important for those that are trying to set up a boat to be as efficient as possible to really understand the differences. But keep educating CF folks on proper electrical terminology, you've got my total agreement as to it's need, it does make my job a bit easier when folks get it.
J.T. (aka Tellie)
HaldenMarineService@yahoo.com
(954) 515-7077
Spectra Watermakers
BlueWater watermakers
RainMan watermakers.
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05-03-2018, 09:04
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#52
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 971
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Re: Proposed human cycle powered watermaker
One gallon per person per day was the norm on passage or in areas of little water availability.
20 day passage, 2 people, only 40 gallons. Small cruiser capability.
Most chores, save body rinsing and cooking, is done with sea water.
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05-03-2018, 09:28
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#53
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 810
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Re: Proposed human cycle powered watermaker
Here's some further info:
General TS 2012 SS pump. 4 GPM at 1450 RPM Stainless steel pressure washer pump with ceramic plungers.
90 RPM (comfortable pedaling speed) : .2484 GPM
.2484 GPM * 1000 psi = 248.4
248.4 / 1719 = .145 horsepower
Below is a snip from Wikipedia:
When considering human-powered equipment, a healthy human can produce about 1.2 hp briefly (see orders of magnitude) and sustain about 0.1 hp (74.57 W) indefinitely; trained athletes can manage up to about 2.5 hp (1.85 kW) briefly and 0.35 hp (260 W) for a period of several hours.
As you can see, this pump is almost perfectly sized to the job of running a pedal power watermaker. .145 HP is well within the capacity of a healthy human for a reasonable period of time. .248 gallons per minute, means a bit less than 4 minutes of pedaling for a gallon of water. The problem here is only that the pump is not available with a shaft off either end, which would be the elegant solution. However a short chain drive to a bearing mounted jack shaft with the pedals, and a cluster gear on the pump shaft would allow you to adjust the ratio for the level of workout you want. It would be a very simple build. The pump is not light, at 31 pounds, but there are smaller pump options, and if one is going with a chain drive anyway, there is no reason not to use one. A pump at a little less than half the displacement weighs in at 22.3 lbs. These are pressure washer pumps, and capable of 2000-3000 psi and from 2-5 GPM at engine or motor driven speeds. I have not priced them, but expect them NOT to be cheap, probably close to $1K... more or less
H.W.
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05-03-2018, 09:54
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#54
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Boat: Island Packet 40
Posts: 6,433
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Re: Proposed human cycle powered watermaker
Probably more efficient and easier to make if you implement it as a sort of wabble board hinged in the middle where you shift your weight from side to side to drive vertical pistons mounted at the ends rather than peddle it.
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05-03-2018, 10:16
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#55
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 810
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Re: Proposed human cycle powered watermaker
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaymondR
Probably more efficient and easier to make if you implement it as a sort of wabble board hinged in the middle where you shift your weight from side to side to drive vertical pistons mounted at the ends rather than peddle it.
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Raymond:
What I would love to do is adapt a rowing board that could be used in the dinghy, similar to the sliding seat system used in racing shells. Rowing brings one's whole body into play, arms, legs, back, etc. These stainless pumps are not cheap....... read prohibitive. Fortunately replacement valve assemblies are affordable, as is stainless steel tubing, and I have a lifetime of designing things and building them or having them built.... a single piston plunger pump is anything but complicated. Plungers are usually ceramic, but stainless works, and is a better choice for the slow speeds. Likewise o-rings make a good plunger seal, and are dirt cheap, readily available, and easily handle far more pressure than is needed. There is a lot to be said for using readily available materials and parts. Building something yourself means that you can service it easily yourself, not as has been implied that it is a "science project" or amateurish...... I am a professional, and this sort of thing is what I do.
H.W.
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05-03-2018, 10:59
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#56
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cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2017
Boat: Retired from CF
Posts: 13,317
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Re: Proposed human cycle powered watermaker
Science project is not meant to imply any lack of quality.
Just my opinion that the idea is not practical in actual day-to-day use.
Especially of generating electricity from human muscle power.
Obviously if you are motivated and have the resources available go for it!
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05-03-2018, 11:50
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#57
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 25
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Re: Proposed human cycle powered watermaker
If I wanted free power on a boat, I'd be working with wave energy....a smallish float on the end of an arm, which float moves up and down at different time and distance than the boat....said arm doing something on the far side of the pivot, like pumping air into a tank.
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05-03-2018, 12:14
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#58
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 810
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Re: Proposed human cycle powered watermaker
Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct
Science project is not meant to imply any lack of quality.
Just my opinion that the idea is not practical in actual day-to-day use.
Especially of generating electricity from human muscle power.
Obviously if you are motivated and have the resources available go for it!
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Generating electricity from human power is absurd, and I never suggested such a thing. Someone else may have. The only realistic application for that is a "cyclovision", where the kids have to pedal to watch TV ;-)
H.W.
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05-03-2018, 12:19
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#59
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 810
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Re: Proposed human cycle powered watermaker
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocHolliday
If I wanted free power on a boat, I'd be working with wave energy....a smallish float on the end of an arm, which float moves up and down at different time and distance than the boat....said arm doing something on the far side of the pivot, like pumping air into a tank.
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Imagine the energy one could generate in a monohull on a trade wind run from the constant rolling, you could perhaps both dampen roll and generate electricity at the same time.
One of the primary reasons for the human powered water maker is exercise. Reaching your destination after a 3 week crossing, it takes considerable time for many people to build muscle tone back. I'm a walker, and hiker. Not a day passes that I don't walk several miles. It keeps me sane (debatable), healthy, alive. At 62, I have more stamina and overall strength than many people have my age. I aim to keep it that way.
H.W.
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05-03-2018, 13:13
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#60
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Antigua, East Coast USA
Boat: Moody, Custom 58 Cutter
Posts: 30
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Re: Proposed human cycle powered watermaker
As a senior sailor I'm naturally concerned about my cardio health.
I disassembled a high end Italian exercise bike and brought the guts of it aboard. Although I eventually abandoned its installation as too much work, I did come up with a swing out of the side of the foot-well nest for the bikw while in use.
For the right boat with the right crew, I think this idea makes good physiological sense and it generates H2O.
The engineering difficulties mentioned can be overcome easily.
On smaller, light weight boats seems like it might be a fit.
Good on ya!
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