Off the dock heating

[rbk]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

That is a good one


Besides the quality heater, you need a really good installation. I wouldn't heat with propane myself, but if you're going to do it, that's the right way.


Edit: I was thinking of the Newport, this one: http://dickinsonmarine.com/product/n...ane-fireplace/, not the Cozy Cabin. The Cozy Cabin looks like a quality device, and I'll bet it's pretty safe, but the burner is open, which is not ABYC compliant. I would go for the Newport, which DOES have a sealed burner.

We have the Newport now. The cozy would be a good choice for a secondary zone heater on a larger boat or for infrequent use but wouldn’t want one for primary heating on a larger boat. The cozy we had was on a 27 footer and the cost, flue size and power consumption is hard to beat. The Newport’s fan keeps the heat circulating way better especially with a larger space to heat. I agree above regarding catalytic heaters. I’ll use them in an enclosed cockpit (full canvas enclosure, pretty crafty) or to give a quick boost cabin heat but would run one inside for extended periods or when asleep; too much moisture.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by rbk

We have the Newport now. The cozy would be a good choice for a secondary zone heater on a larger boat or for infrequent use but wouldn’t want one for primary heating on a larger boat. The cozy we had was on a 27 footer and the cost, flue size and power consumption is hard to beat. The Newport’s fan keeps the heat circulating way better especially with a larger space to heat. I agree above regarding catalytic heaters. I’ll use them in an enclosed cockpit (full canvas enclosure, pretty crafty) or to give a quick boost cabin heat but would run one inside for extended periods or when asleep; too much moisture.

A few things
I ran a cozy on my islander it works good for smaller boats and the 1 inch flue is a real big deal.

Being an open flame personally i would not sleep with it running .

Catalytic heat same thing would not run while not awake and watching it .

Installed the chineese knockoff espar and never looked back .

Now to the fact of burning propane and moisture the fact is that there is 1 oz moisture fir each 1,000 btu per hour.
So not actually that much moisture. You put a lot more in the air just cooking a hamburger.

[rbk]

Originally Posted by newhaul

A few things
I ran a cozy on my islander it works good for smaller boats and the 1 inch flue is a real big deal.

Being an open flame personally i would not sleep with it running .

Catalytic heat same thing would not run while not awake and watching it .

Installed the chineese knockoff espar and never looked back .

Now to the fact of burning propane and moisture the fact is that there is 1 oz moisture fir each 1,000 btu per hour.
So not actually that much moisture. You put a lot more in the air just cooking a hamburger.

So a typical 8000btu unvented heater will put 8oz of water into the air per hour. That’s like boiling off an entire can of beer every hour, a flat (24) in 24 hours. Definitely not nothing. Cooking, breathing do play a big role but it’s best to reduce the amount of water vapour being out into the air as best you can.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by rbk

So a typical 8000btu unvented heater will put 8oz of water into the air per hour. That’s like boiling off an entire can of beer every hour, a flat (24) in 24 hours. Definitely not nothing. Cooking, breathing do play a big role but it’s best to reduce the amount of water vapour being out into the air as best you can.

I agree that meteoric doesn't just apply to unvented heaters it also applies to cooking or any other time you are burning propane.

Btw most small propane heaters are more like 5200 btu just like the burner on your stove.
Also humans breath out about 2 oz per hour while sleeping.

[stormalong]

Originally Posted by rbk

http://dickinsonmarine.com/product/cozycabinheater/

These above (used to be Sig marine) have been around for many years. Thermocouple with low O2 and pilot safety shutoff. Flame is open but vented, not sure if ABYC compliant but I have used one for a decade and wouldn’t hesitate to sleep with one on.

The one caveat about these heaters is that they go through propane very quickly. At full output they will empty a 5 gallon propane tank in about three days.

It is very helpful to mount it low and to put a small fan above it to circulate the hot air. The smokestack also radiates a lot of heat so the longer the better. Mine is about 5 feet long and it is very hot at the top of the heater but only slightly warm at the ceiling.

I have been using one for nearly 30 years. Originally made by Force 10. I think I paid $175 for it in 1990. One of the reasons I chose this is the small diameter hole in my deck.

[hpeer]

Taylor still makes them for kerosene and they pop up in Ebay once in a while. All brands, as far as I know, use the exact same burner so replacement parts are available. I have a SS container that just fits on top of mine and it makes a nice cuppa tea, but takes a while.

[rbk]

Originally Posted by newhaul

I agree that meteoric doesn't just apply to unvented heaters it also applies to cooking or any other time you are burning propane.

Btw most small propane heaters are more like 5200 btu just like the burner on your stove.
Also humans breath out about 2 oz per hour while sleeping.

I was thinking about the mr heater (typical portable catalytic propane heater with safety devices) which are 9k on high 4K on low.

[rbk]

Originally Posted by stormalong

The one caveat about these heaters is that they go through propane very quickly. At full output they will empty a 5 gallon propane tank in about three days.

It is very helpful to mount it low and to put a small fan above it to circulate the hot air. The smokestack also radiates a lot of heat so the longer the better. Mine is about 5 feet long and it is very hot at the top of the heater but only slightly warm at the ceiling.

I have been using one for nearly 30 years. Originally made by Force 10. I think I paid $175 for it in 1990. One of the reasons I chose this is the small diameter hole in my deck.

Ours was a Force 10 as well, Sig must have bought the design then Dickinson. We typically used a 5lb tank over a 3 day weekend dedicated for heat. Not running while underway and on low overnight. We rarely used half a tank. Dockside (nasty weather ie cold/rainy) we’d go through the whole tank in 3 days running it straight.

[Cpt Mark]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Two things 1 dont install in living spaces and second there is no need to use a muffler on a boat they are not that loud. Not to mention the mufflers are designed to be on the outside of a semi truck . They will not survive well in a marine environment .

Agreed that the Chinese mufflers are not to be used on a boat. Through Sure Marine I bought a SS muffler made by them here in the U.S.A. specifically for this purpose. Standing a few feet away from the output you can barely hear it and since the muffler is inside my engine room, keeps things quiet.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Cpt Mark

Agreed that the Chinese mufflers are not to be used on a boat. Through Sure Marine I bought a SS muffler made by them here in the U.S.A. specifically for this purpose. Standing a few feet away from the output you can barely hear it and since the muffler is inside my engine room, keeps things quiet.

Dockmates didnt even know that i had one till one day they just happen to see me start it in the evening . No muffler needed

[Fatbob]

What about one of the Kerosene Heater like you use in a house to take the chill off. We had on that we used in the basement and it worked great.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/KeroHeat-Ra...ter/1003237170

[manitu]

Originally Posted by Fatbob

What about one of the Kerosene Heater like you use in a house to take the chill off. We had on that we used in the basement and it worked great.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/KeroHeat-Ra...ter/1003237170

No no no.

Open burner which dumps the exhaust into the living space . You could use it to heat up the boat at arrival, until your smaller closed heater can cope.
But it should not be run without ample ventilation, and not when you sleep.

I'm in the process of a complete systems refit in my Jeanneau espace 1000. If I could find a suitable spot for a dickinson/reflex/glembring type pot burner, preferably one with a cold air intake and water coil, I would have fitted one. but as each square inch inside the cabin is used, and used well, I have chosen a chinese Espar copy.

About these chinese units: 5 and 8kw versions are the same units. Running at much more than 4,5-5 kw they won't burn cleanly , and aren't sized for the higher output.

Don't put the burner inlet and the cabin air inlet in the same compartment.

If your heater puts out too much heat, just turning it down often produces much more soot. A better solution is to adjust the amount of diesel/RPM so you can run the fan at a higher setting, while burning less diesel.

The exhaust I choose is the original 2 metre Espar insulated exhust/mufler.
https://www.heatso.com/espar-eberspa...nd-insulation/

It is labeled "to heater" in one end. I believe the muffler sits in the other end.

Another thing, insulating the cabin greatly reduces the kw's needed for heating.
I'm using "low-e" mylar+poly-something insulation behind every roof panel in the whole boat + under the floors. I'll try to insulate all of the visible hull above the water line too.

.manitu

[manitu]

One more thing: Someone earlier in the thread used diesel engine specs for CO to defend the use of open combustion diesel/kerosene burners. Modern diesel engines burn diesel under extremely high pressure/compression, using multi stage catalytic converters and advanced electronic control. It is in no way comparable to a open burner.


.manitu

[capt jgw]

Originally Posted by clockwork orange

There are a lot of Chinese 12v/ diesel forced air heaters available on amazon or ebay for less than $200 that are quite good.

I have one of those too and so far it's worked pretty well. It's a little noisy, sounds like a distant jet engine but it's a steady sound and I get used to it pretty quickly. It's intermittent or fluctuating noises that wake me up. Fuel burn is not too bad, but it does use a lot of 12V power. 9 amps when the glow plug is running and 3 or 4 after that. You'll have to watch your battery budget. You also need the double walled through hull fitting for the exhaust that you can get on eBay. That's kind of pricey at $85, half what I paid for the heater. Also need to carefully route and wrap the exhaust pipe, it gets over 500 deg. I used header wrap from Autozone. And don't run any kind of fuel burning heater without a GOOD carbon monoxide detector.

[capt jgw]

Originally Posted by Cpt Mark

Agreed that the Chinese mufflers are not to be used on a boat. Through Sure Marine I bought a SS muffler made by them here in the U.S.A. specifically for this purpose. Standing a few feet away from the output you can barely hear it and since the muffler is inside my engine room, keeps things quiet.

The muffler that comes with the heater has a small hole in it to drain condensing water. It will leak a little exhaust so definitely don't use it in a boat install. I tested mine in my garage before installing it, I found the muffler doesn't quiet the exhaust much anyway so I just threw it out.