Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 24-02-2016, 18:08   #31
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,032
Re: NEED ADVICE! How to extend the life of the Seagull IV water purification filters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Hey, I beat you by four minutes!



But great minds...



Jim

I type slow as the devil, especially on this IPad thing


Sent from my iPad Pro using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________

__________________
a64pilot is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2016, 18:12   #32
Registered User
 
Ribbit's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 655
Re: NEED ADVICE! How to extend the life of the Seagull IV water purification filters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tstano View Post
I've had one of these for 6 months while we've been cruising. Flow is a bit slower now but flavor is still fine. We've used municipal water from marinas as we traveled.

All U Get
Apparently to be effective, the flow rate through the filter needs to be under 1 gallon per minute. The Seagull filter exceeds this by 25%.

The flow rate of the compatible filter has been reduced, to drop it below that 1 gallon a minute requirement for full effectiveness.

To me anyway, the compatible filter is the much better product as a result.

5 teaspoons of the correct concentration of chlorine bleach to 49 gallons, from memory, seems to be just over 50% of what is necessary to properly sterilise the water? I was always led to believe that it needed 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons.

A cheap and easily replaceable pre-filter (or two), before the water reaches the expensive equipment and filters, certainly seems the way to go.
__________________

__________________
Ribbit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2016, 18:13   #33
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,198
Re: NEED ADVICE! How to extend the life of the Seagull IV water purification filters?

Some filters incl. the Seagull IV are good enough to be called purifiers... don't think a cheap Home Depot filter can match that.

I tried the cheaper knock-off elements but they don't last as long, negating the price advantage.

I believe previous posts show a cheaper alternative that works as good as the SG IV; I know there is one that is certified and I bought one to test but it's not at the top of the list yet
__________________
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2016, 18:21   #34
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,441
Re: NEED ADVICE! How to extend the life of the Seagull IV water purification filters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparrowhawk1 View Post
My setup is a dual 10 inch cartridge system. First is a 5 micron "charcoal" filter. The second is a .05 micron which is supposed to remove 99.99% of lead, pesticides, cysts, etc. I used to just use the .05 micron and I would get a year out of it before the water would start slowing down. I never had bad taste, but with the dual system it costs almost nothing to replace the charcoal filter. my only worry is that the .05 filter has a limit to removing the heavy metals. I'm going on maybe 3 years no restriction as far as I can tell.
SH, I'm kinda unclear how a mechanical filter, even one with a .05 micron pore size can filter out heavy metals. Can you explain the mechanism to me, please?

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania once again
Jim Cate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2016, 18:52   #35
Registered User
 
sparrowhawk1's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Miami Beach Fl
Boat: Colombia Cc 11.8
Posts: 1,252
Re: NEED ADVICE! How to extend the life of the Seagull IV water purification filters?

[QUOTE=Jim Cate;2055285]SH, I'm kinda unclear how a mechanical filter, even one with a . pore size can filter out heavy metals. Can you explain the mechanism to me, please?

Jim[/QUOT

Well that's what's listed on the packaging and it's not just one brand. its pretty much all .05 Micron filters. they take out 99.99% of lead and there's a long list of everything else. This is according to them I hope that there's some regulation on what they can state
__________________
sparrowhawk1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2016, 18:57   #36
Writing Full-Time Since 2014
 
thinwater's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 4,326
Re: NEED ADVICE! How to extend the life of the Seagull IV water purification filters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor647 View Post
I'm not following. What other tank are you referring to? In my OP, I said, "The stainless water tanks had been inspected and sanitized, and the water pressure tank was new." The seagull filter housing is also clean and in excellent condition.

I decided to replace the Seagull IV filter today (Part no: 788222 RS-1SG, Lot no: 009322), which was installed on 10/12/2015. We stopped using the water on December 22 when the taste went south, but it still had great pressure. The filter was only 2 1/2 month old. And the Seagull water was only used for drinking, cooking, and making ice cubes in trays, so not a lot of water went through the filter.

Before I replaced the filter, I took PPM readings from several sources.
Bottled water: 5 ppm
Dock hose water from Puerto Los Cabos Marina, Mexico: 315 ppm
Cold tank water: 339 ppm (It is a 49 gallon tank and had 5 teaspoons of original (non-scented) Chlorox bleach added to it during filling. (We have been using tank water for dishes and showers.)
Old Seagull filter: 340 ppm

The new Seagull IV (Lot no: 009662) was installed. The water was allowed to run for two minutes.
New Seagull filter: 332 ppm But, the taste of the water is excellent. Again. I'm at a loss. Suggestions?

I'm going to test the Seagull water regularly with the ppm meter to see if anything changes. If it does, I'll follow up with a post. Anyone else care to test their Seagull IV filter water with a ppm meter and share the results?

Thanks again.
PPM of what? I think a little reading on water chemistry would help.
http://www.epa.gov/your-drinking-wat...r-contaminants

The"PPM" you report is probably TDS (salts and such) which are not removed by filters and as a class are harmless. In fact, high-hardness water is provably healthier (EPA and WHO).

The bottled water is probably distilled or RO, which removes salts. But it is largly irrelavant to water safety unless you are a battery.
__________________
Gear Testing--Engineering--Sailing

Writing full-time since 2014.
Bookstore:http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/20...ook-store.html
thinwater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2016, 19:04   #37
Writing Full-Time Since 2014
 
thinwater's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 4,326
Re: NEED ADVICE! How to extend the life of the Seagull IV water purification filters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Some filters incl. the Seagull IV are good enough to be called purifiers... don't think a cheap Home Depot filter can match that.

I tried the cheaper knock-off elements but they don't last as long, negating the price advantage.

I believe previous posts show a cheaper alternative that works as good as the SG IV; I know there is one that is certified and I bought one to test but it's not at the top of the list yet
The Pentek filter I referenced is meets the same specs for half the price. Filters Fast. It is based on an industry-standard housing that will take other NSF 53-rated filters when not in the 3rd world. A MUCH better value.
* http://www.lenntech.com/Data-sheets/...e-310905-L.pdf
* https://www.filtersfast.com/P-Pentek...ter-Filter.asp
__________________
Gear Testing--Engineering--Sailing

Writing full-time since 2014.
Bookstore:http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/20...ook-store.html
thinwater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2016, 20:28   #38
Registered User
 
sparrowhawk1's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Miami Beach Fl
Boat: Colombia Cc 11.8
Posts: 1,252
Re: NEED ADVICE! How to extend the life of the Seagull IV water purification filters?

I searched for a couple hours about the .05 micron filters. Most of it ended up in sales people. this looks pretty respectable even though it says nothing about microns. tomorrow I'm going to look up the NSF.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1456370827469.jpg
Views:	60
Size:	111.4 KB
ID:	119562  
__________________
sparrowhawk1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-02-2016, 01:54   #39
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 35
Re: NEED ADVICE! How to extend the life of the Seagull IV water purification filters?

Okay, I want to preface what I'm about to write. I don't have much experience with a marine water filter, but I do have extensive experience with RO filters that I used when I had a marine tank (I made salt water)

Anyway an RO membrane which is what are used require maintenance, they are very delicate and also very prone to developing bacterial problems when not looked after well.

The fact that you've changed the filter and the taste improves says a lot about where the problem is and it sounds like you might need to sanitise the whole system to clean out bad bacteria. The bacteria can be on the inside of the canister that holds the membrane, in the fittings before the membrane and after it as well.

The reason that the bacteria that might exist on the inside of the system but that you can't taste it is perhaps due to population density they simply haven't enough surface area BUT a fresh clean RO membrane has an absolutely enormous surface area for bacteria to colonise and so when you put in a new membrane you remove the largest colony and put in a new blank slate and it makes the water taste better for a while.

When you replace it next I'd clean the entire system, remove the membrane, shock the system with bleach/chlorine, scrub everything that can be removed and do as much of the pipe work before the membrane as well, the flush the system, install the new membrane and start religiously doing back flushes after every use.

TDS is only a useful measurement in certain situations, ie, TDS in the intake water and TDS on the output if you don't have a measurement on both ends there is no point taking a measurement. RO filters do decrease TDS but it's dependant on how bad the water is that's coming in.

With relatively clean ocean water captured far away from shore you'll have pretty damned clean water and usually far better then anything that you'll get from a government run water filtration plant.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
DreamerB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-02-2016, 02:58   #40
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Caribbean
Boat: Oyster 66
Posts: 973
Re: NEED ADVICE! How to extend the life of the Seagull IV water purification filters?

It does sound like the system needs a good manual clean and a bleach sterilisation. As a quick temporary fix you may be able to rinse some slime off the outside of the Seagull filter. Do it gently though. I have found this to help.
__________________
poiu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-02-2016, 03:03   #41
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,441
Re: NEED ADVICE! How to extend the life of the Seagull IV water purification filters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamerB View Post
Okay, I want to preface what I'm about to write. I don't have much experience with a marine water filter, but I do have extensive experience with RO filters that I used when I had a marine tank (I made salt water)

Anyway an RO membrane which is what are used require maintenance, they are very delicate and also very prone to developing bacterial problems when not looked after well.

The fact that you've changed the filter and the taste improves says a lot about where the problem is and it sounds like you might need to sanitise the whole system to clean out bad bacteria. The bacteria can be on the inside of the canister that holds the membrane, in the fittings before the membrane and after it as well.

The reason that the bacteria that might exist on the inside of the system but that you can't taste it is perhaps due to population density they simply haven't enough surface area BUT a fresh clean RO membrane has an absolutely enormous surface area for bacteria to colonise and so when you put in a new membrane you remove the largest colony and put in a new blank slate and it makes the water taste better for a while.

When you replace it next I'd clean the entire system, remove the membrane, shock the system with bleach/chlorine, scrub everything that can be removed and do as much of the pipe work before the membrane as well, the flush the system, install the new membrane and start religiously doing back flushes after every use.

TDS is only a useful measurement in certain situations, ie, TDS in the intake water and TDS on the output if you don't have a measurement on both ends there is no point taking a measurement. RO filters do decrease TDS but it's dependant on how bad the water is that's coming in.

With relatively clean ocean water captured far away from shore you'll have pretty damned clean water and usually far better then anything that you'll get from a government run water filtration plant.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Umm, Dreamer, the filters in question are not RO units. They are simple mechanical/carbon filters for cleaning up fresh water from unknown sources. It is true that RO units can be used for this purpose, but that is not the subject under discussion.

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania once again
Jim Cate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 25-02-2016, 03:21   #42
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 35
Re: NEED ADVICE! How to extend the life of the Seagull IV water purification filters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Umm, Dreamer, the filters in question are not RO units. They are simple mechanical/carbon filters for cleaning up fresh water from unknown sources. It is true that RO units can be used for this purpose, but that is not the subject under discussion.



Jim

Oooh, lol. Well I'm a goose heh


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
DreamerB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2016, 11:27   #43
Registered User
 
Sailor647's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Hailing Port: Portland, Oregon
Boat: Norseman 400
Posts: 197
Re: NEED ADVICE! How to extend the life of the Seagull IV water purification filters?

All- Thanks for the replies. They were very helpful. We learned a lot about the limits of a TDS meter.

This is an old publication, but the theory was very informative for us.
http://www.ishipaco.com/katadyn/docs/WatermakerBook.PDF

Below is the response we got from General Ecology. As replied with some follow-up questions, but they did not reply back. I didn't call, as we're in Mexico.


Reference: Your Email Dated February 23, 2016 – Seagull IV Questions

Thank you for the above referenced email.

In response to your inquiries: Seagull®IV systems are intended to remove microbiological, organic chemical, and aesthetic contaminants from the water.

They are intended NOT to change the dissolved mineral content of the water. Total Dissolved Solids (TDS), measured in parts per million, is a measure of the dissolved mineral content of the water.

The capacity of a cartridge is affected by the source water quality and the system operating conditions.

Typically, cartridges should be replaced: 1) when the flow rate decreases, 2) if a foul taste or odor is observed, or 3) annually.

A couple of questions to help identify the problem:

1. Do you maintain a chlorine or other disinfectant residual in your tanks? Chlorine will minimize microbial growth and is removed by the Seagull IV system.

2. Can you identify the taste or odor? If it is sulfur, the problem may be minimized by chlorination. It may also be possible to extend the cartridge life by removing it when a taste/odor is observed and allowing the cartridge to air dry. It can then be reinstalled to get additional life. By interchanging two cartridges, you can get better life and capacity out of both.

Please feel free to call at your convenience to discuss your situation and how to get the best performance from your Seagull IV system. Please do not discard any used cartridges until we have had a chance to talk.

Thank you again for your inquiry. We look forward to hearing from you. I am available by phone, (800-441-8166/610-363-7900), M-F, 8:00 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. (EST) and by facsimile (610-363-0412) or email (info@generalecology.com) 7 days a week, 24 hours a day. Our address is 151 Sheree Boulevard, Exton, PA 19341.

Very truly yours,

Paul M. Murphy
Product Engineer/QA
General Ecology, Inc.

Water Purifiers and Micro Water Filters: Seagull IV, Nature Pure, First Need - General Ecology
info@generalecology.com
1-800-441-8166 (U.S.A. & Canada)
1-610-363-0412 (24hr fax)
__________________
Sailor647 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2016, 14:49   #44
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,032
Re: NEED ADVICE! How to extend the life of the Seagull IV water purification filters?

You know after I read this awhile ago I saw a commercial on TV for a "zero water" filter.
On TV they were using a TDS meter to show how their filter removed dissolved solids from the water?
Now years ago I had a "filter" for de-ionizing water for use in developing X-ray film, is that what this zero water filter is?


Sent from my iPad Pro using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________

__________________
a64pilot is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
water

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Best water purification filters? malbert73 Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 56 01-12-2017 20:49
For Sale: Diesel Filters and Filters silverp40 Classifieds Archive 3 20-03-2014 14:08
Water Purification lorenzo b Provisioning: Food & Drink 38 14-04-2010 09:50
fuel filters are fuel filters? Jack Long Engines and Propulsion Systems 17 08-09-2008 19:44
Water Purification ssullivan Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 32 18-07-2007 17:31



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 18:27.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.