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Old 11-01-2011, 10:02   #31
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not sure if anyone has tried to dilute hcl or muriatic with water.. but it isnt easy or fun...both FUME/react with water when first mixed....
You don't dilute acid; you add acid to water. The opposite is a bit smelly; either way, do this on-deck.

Yes, I think it safe to assume all of those posting about HCl have done that.
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Old 11-01-2011, 10:07   #32
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thanks, but i am learning to not assume anything... but yea, it makes sense that boater will probably have more experience then most home owners about working with acids...

and had it not been for my excellent high school teacher and a job at a circuit board factory when i was younger, i wouldnt know about the diluting of acids, or rather the procedure on how to dilute acid..
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Old 11-01-2011, 10:09   #33
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not sure if anyone has tried to dilute hcl or muriatic with water.. but it isnt easy or fun...both FUME/react with water when first mixed....
Remember, always pour the acid into the water, not the other way around. It will still fume, but probably won't erupt into your eyes.

I've seen diluted muriatic melt nylon, and some of the parts in my Groco head look like they could be nylon (white plastic of some type). Muriatic works well at home, but I'm going to be cautious with it on the boat.
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Old 11-01-2011, 10:17   #34
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From a Welshman, who taught my Chemistry class 55 yrs ago:

Heres to the professor,
Who now lives no more,
For what he thought was H2O,
Was H2So4.
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Old 11-01-2011, 14:26   #35
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i recall my middle school science teacher explaining to use that a Jacob's ladder had low current and therefore couldnt kill you, and then he proceeded to put his hand into the path and got thrown back about 5 feet...


lesson learned, he didnt die from teh current, but damn that couple hundred thousand volts will move mass!!!!!
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Old 12-01-2011, 19:59   #36
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You care about a meter of plastic pipe but not about a mile of an ocean? If you flush your toilet frequently and with plenty of water you will not have the problem again, at least not before the time comes to replace the pipes.

Maybe you can just dismount the pipe and whack the calcium out?

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Old 13-01-2011, 07:27   #37
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You care about a meter of plastic pipe but not about a mile of an ocean?
A flush of muratic acid will have zero effect on the ocean. The natural buffers present, along with the high dilution factor, will prevent any measurable increase in the ocean pH, even in the immediate vicinity of the flush out.

The pH is the only meaningful effect to consider - muratic acid doesn't contain any "harmful ingredients" other than a high concentration of protons.

Even if all the boats in a harbor flushed a cup of muratic acid at the same time, there would be no measurable effect in the immediate surrounding waters.

It would take dumping unobtainable amounts of muratic acid to effect a mile of ocean.

Vinegar is a highly diluted acid and only useful in helping with deposits if it is used regularly as preventive maintenance. If deposits are already present, you will need to use something stronger such as muratic acid. Glacial acetic acid would also work, but not as easy to procure or handle.

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Old 13-01-2011, 10:30   #38
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"A little squirt in the bowel and pumped into the lines once the bowel's been thoroughly evacuated will help prevent the built-up of salt/calcium carbonate"

A little squirt in the bowel, is that the same thing as an enema or am I missing some hidden meaning. I guess it might mean bowl instead of bowel. I could not resist this misspelling or what.
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Old 13-01-2011, 10:51   #39
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in the current sense of public concern any affect by man on nature is unaceptable... i agree with you but at some point there will be more boater and more use of chemicals and products and thre will need to be some method to remond us to do teh 'right' thing...


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A flush of muratic acid will have zero effect on the ocean. The natural buffers present, along with the high dilution factor, will prevent any measurable increase in the ocean pH, even in the immediate vicinity of the flush out.

The pH is the only meaningful effect to consider - muratic acid doesn't contain any "harmful ingredients" other than a high concentration of protons.

Even if all the boats in a harbor flushed a cup of muratic acid at the same time, there would be no measurable effect in the immediate surrounding waters.

It would take dumping unobtainable amounts of muratic acid to effect a mile of ocean.

Vinegar is a highly diluted acid and only useful in helping with deposits if it is used regularly as preventive maintenance. If deposits are already present, you will need to use something stronger such as muratic acid. Glacial acetic acid would also work, but not as easy to procure or handle.

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Old 13-01-2011, 11:06   #40
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Muriatic acid is 30 - 35% hydrochloric acid (HCl).
The common stainless steel types, 304 and 316 are considered non-resistant to hydrochloric acid, at any concentration and temperature.
Ditto. The guy stated he had a stainless holding tank, Any strong acid will eventually eat through it. Dilute HCl will just take longer.
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Old 13-01-2011, 12:30   #41
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Ditto. The guy stated he had a stainless holding tank, Any strong acid will eventually eat through it. Dilute HCl will just take longer.
Actually, no, only HCl. SS is fine with most acids, just not Cl- in acid solution. Assuming we are talking 316 SS.

I've got to add, that if we are talking seawater flush (2% Cl-) and dilute acid (2-3% Cl-), the addition of Cl- here is really, really tiny. I think it is a science project, in the real world, to determine if there is any real difference between vinegar and HCl in equal moderation. We are quoting chemistry without facts.

Technical Information - Stainless Steel Chemical Resistance Chart FL | Hayata
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Old 13-01-2011, 12:34   #42
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in the current sense of public concern any affect by man on nature is unaceptable... i agree with you but at some point there will be more boater and more use of chemicals and products and thre will need to be some method to remond us to do teh 'right' thing...
I don't think you understand the chemistry involved. HCl becomes sea water when neutralized. Any other acid leaves some residue. HCl is the lowest impact acid cleaner possible.
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Old 13-01-2011, 12:45   #43
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in the current sense of public concern any affect by man on nature is unaceptable
Striving for having no effect by man on nature is unreasonable and impossible. It would involve the extermination of man (and even that would have an effect on nature).

I am only discussing the use of muratic acid to dissolve hose deposits here. In that narrow arena, all the boaters in the world flushing a cup or two through their heads at the same time every month (heck, make it every day) will have zero measurable effect on the ocean, let alone their immediate surrounding local waters.

While other products and their routine usage can over time effect the ocean, or at least local areas, to put muratic acid in this category is barking up the wrong tree.

I think the "acid" label is the culprit. If vinegar were routinely labeled acetic acid and orange juice warned you about the citric acid content and soda was prominently labeled with carbonic acid and the lactic acid content in beer was clearly displayed...I could go on...

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Old 13-01-2011, 13:56   #44
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I think the "acid" label is the culprit. If vinegar were routinely labeled acetic acid and orange juice warned you about the citric acid content and soda was prominently labeled with carbonic acid and the lactic acid content in beer was clearly displayed...I could go on...

Mark
Oh, that nasty HCl will eat the skin right off the bone... which is why it works so very well as stomach acid! Which of course, is one of the reasons we need salt in our diet; to make all of that good acid.
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Old 13-01-2011, 15:29   #45
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whether or not hcl is nuetralized or not wasnt the question or my point, and nor am i suggesting mass extermination to save the panet. i merely stated my observation of current thinking/actions... and I am not chemist but if you neutralize hcl arent you also nuetralizing the seawater? or in essence altering it from where nature has set it at currently? I understrand there are regulations for where you can dump waste/soiled materials, and although the oceans are connected to the shallow waters I ambuessing they have observed some affect from un regulated... no whether or noth thier regulations are extreme or not enuf is not the intent of my point, just that we are making a difference and it would behoove us and the planet to fugure out the best way to minimize that affect...

if hcl works better or is the only way then so be it.. but if a less acidic or other contaminant is available then use that...
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