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Old 01-03-2013, 12:10   #1
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Mounting a Force 10 diesel cabin heater in a Cal 28

All,

In an effort to extend comfortable cruising into the winter here on Puget Sound, I am planning to install a Force 10 diesel/kerosene heater in my ancient Cal 28.

I have studied carefully many of the pros/cons of propane vs. diesel and have decided that for my application, the low-volatility of diesel trumps the convenience of propane. I fully understand that the Force 10 burner is unforgiving of poor adjustment/maintenance, however I am pretty familiar with the care and feeding of liquid-fuel burners thanks to several decades of cooking on backpacking stoves over the years. Most of the negative Force 10 kerosene/diesel experiences I read about alluded to mis-adjustment or insufficient preheating of the burner unit prior to lighting, causing flare-ups, excessive soot, etc.

That being said, I am left with the problem of location of the stove within the cabin. I am confident that with the help of my local fabricator, I can achieve the necessary smooth run of chimney pipe, with at least 30" of exposed SS exhaust between the heater body and the cabin roof. Likewise, siting the requisite diesel pressure tank is a non-issue.

The conventional mounting location appears to be the bulkhead near the mast compression post (see A in diagram), however this would sacrifice one of the precious few seats around my U-shaped settee in the main cabin. I would much rather give up my hanging locker just the other side of the bulkhead in the head area, where I could build in a ceramic-tiled 'nook' to house the heater and provide a comfortable spacing between heater and surrounding cabinetry (B). This location also allows for a longer run of the SS chimney pipe, presumably transferring more heat to the surrounding air. I would employ a 12V fan to move the hot air out of the forward part of the cabin into the main salon, however it is unlikely that anyone sitting in the main area would feel any of the direct radiative effects of the heater.

Does the Force 10 heater provide most of its benefit in radiated heat, or can I locate the unit slightly away from the main cabin and effectively distribute the hot air throughout the cabin using a capable fan?

Thanks all for any insights, especially from those with experience with this particular model/application.

DC
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Old 01-03-2013, 12:14   #2
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Re: Mounting a Force 10 diesel cabin heater in a Cal 28

I have mine on the bulkhead in the salon. Nearly all the heat is radiant, and I've had great luck aiming a cabin fan at it. Really warms the place up.

Get a barometric dampener if you don't have one already.
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Old 01-03-2013, 14:16   #3
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Re: Mounting a Force 10 diesel cabin heater in a Cal 28

I can't imagine a barometric damper in a 1" ss chimney pipe.

I mounted one in our aft cabin. It is recessed into the bulkhead, occupying some otherwise unused engine room space. The heater sits so that the chimney hole is inside the aluminum recess box I made. Welding up the chimney was a toughie, it has three corners in it.

So the heater is exposed to the cabin, but with only half of the heater "out" of the box. It is low, about a foot off the sole. There is nearly 6-feet of chimney run. The chimney gets REAL hot coming out of the stove, and I fitted a guard over it for about 2-feet (Ikea SS wine rack - works and look good.) By the time it gets to the cabin roof I can hold the chimney in my hand. So I'm sucking out ALL the heat.

We have an Espar in the main salon that does the heavy lifting, but on a cold night (24F) the aft cabin is still pretty chilly.

With the Force 10 kero it gets right nice and cozy. It is hard to say how much is radiant heat and how much convection, but in bed we can not see the stove at all. Radiant heat may warm the walls and some cabinetry. My gut says that the vast amount of heating we get is convection.

Our aft cabin is pretty good size. We can stand at the foot of the bed and we have nearly a full size bed with flat surfaces and then shelving on either side. It's smaller than your salon in volume, but maybe not much.
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Old 01-03-2013, 16:08   #4
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Re: Mounting a Force 10 diesel cabin heater in a Cal 28

They have 1" exhausts? Crazy, mine 36 year old model is 4". Underway when we tack the wind does crazy things as the staysail crosses over the charlie noble so with just a flue pipe (regardless of the top) it pushes air down it. Entire cabin fills with diesel smoke.
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Old 01-03-2013, 17:13   #5
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Re: Mounting a Force 10 diesel cabin heater in a Cal 28

Apples and oranges.

You are thinking of a "pot burner".

He is talking of a primus type pressure burner, I think. They run on kero. Supposedly they will run diesel also but have not tried it.
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Old 01-03-2013, 17:34   #6
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pirate Re: Mounting a Force 10 diesel cabin heater in a Cal 28

I would go for the hanging locker and line the area behind with heavy duty foil shiney side in toward the heater... a small 12v fan (if you decide you need one) top corner facing 45* down.. wired through a thermostat so it cuts in at say -65f -70f and starts blowing the warm air around again.
I would however put a bend in to have the flue come up further
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Old 01-03-2013, 17:44   #7
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Re: Mounting a Force 10 diesel cabin heater in a Cal 28

Is Force 10 still making or supporting diesel heaters? I had an opportunity to get one from a friend but didn't because of installation issues and parts issues, not much need (in So Cal). Still dreaming of something though......what I really want is a wood one.......good luck with yours......
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Old 01-03-2013, 20:31   #8
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Re: Mounting a Force 10 diesel cabin heater in a Cal 28

Taylor in UK makes em, I think. Yup, but awful expensive.

Taylors 079K

http://www.toplicht.de/en/shop/ofen-...umheizung-079k

Taylors heaters and cookers

I have bought them, and the cookers used for good price.

I now have a stock of spare burner parts.

We have kero cookers also, so I'm getting to know the lil buggers pretty well.

You can buy genuine Taylor's burners through St Brendan's Isle.

Base Camp in UK sells parts but I don't think they have burners.

http://www.base-camp.co.uk/
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Old 02-03-2013, 15:00   #9
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Re: Mounting a Force 10 diesel cabin heater in a Cal 28

does anyone have an opinion on the Dickinson Chesepeake? I have the chance to barter for one from a customer. not sure when I'll need it. It appears to be diesel, but have no checked into it very much. I plan to live aboard in all different places over the next 40 or so years so seems like a good investment?
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Old 02-03-2013, 15:16   #10
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Re: Mounting a Force 10 diesel cabin heater in a Cal 28

I've never heard of a Dickinson Chesapeake heater.

DickinsonMarine.com - Diesel Heaters
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Old 04-03-2013, 13:51   #11
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Re: Mounting a Force 10 diesel cabin heater in a Cal 28

Thanks all for the feedback.

FWIW, although the heater is no longer made, I was able to find burner rebuild kits pretty easily by Googling. The burner unit itself was made by Patria (Portugal). Once cleaned and rebuilt, the heater purrs like a kitten; it's well-behaved and quite warm with little to no soot.
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Old 04-03-2013, 14:12   #12
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Re: Mounting a Force 10 diesel cabin heater in a Cal 28

The optimus/primus/patria burners are NLA. There was one on Ebay last week with a starting bid at $50. I don't think these burners will last using diesel. Tried it with #1 diesel years ago and the burners coaked up and were ruined. Fortunately the burners were still available then and relatively cheap so no big thing. Think I'd stick with kerosene or mineral spirits for fuel as both worked for years in our cook stove without an issue. Hope someone starts making these burners again as without them, there are going to be a lot of junk kerosene stoves out there.

We had a Taylor's heater in our Westsail 32 which is a pretty close cousin to the Force 10. They need to be mounted as low as possible as circulation of the heat is all convection without a fan. Without a fan, we had sweaty heads and cold feet. We were in SoCal so a lot more benign conditions than the PNW.
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Old 04-03-2013, 14:19   #13
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Re: Mounting a Force 10 diesel cabin heater in a Cal 28

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepFrz View Post
I've never heard of a Dickinson Chesapeake heater.

DickinsonMarine.com - Diesel Heaters
I guess was last made in 1980. Apparently had some issues with boat catching on fire, etc.

Some people seem to be quite happy with them, but the odd thing is that exhaust is only 2" on what appears to be a decent sized heater. Anyway, can get one nearby at a good price and seems would work in my boat well.

I guess Dickerson offers no parts or even copies of old manuals for the unit.

Just thought someone might have some other info than I have seen in other threads while the topic was "hot"
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Old 25-03-2013, 15:26   #14
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Re: Mounting a Force 10 diesel cabin heater in a Cal 28

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Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
"... I don't think these burners will last using diesel. Tried it with #1 diesel years ago and the burners coaked up and were ruined. ... Think I'd stick with kerosene or mineral spirits for fuel as both worked for years in our cook stove without an issue..."
My Force 10/cozy Cabin has the multi-fuel burner jet (for use with either kero or diesel). I had intended to stick with diesel for its low-volatility/safety, but am probably not as informed as I could be on the subject.

All things being equal (between kerosene and diesel as a fuel) which would be less flammable in case of a spill? Does one burn with less smell than another?
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Old 22-12-2013, 12:40   #15
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Re: Mounting a Force 10 diesel cabin heater in a Cal 28

The combustion gasses go up the flue so should be no smell. Mount the heater low--makes a big difference.
FYI---The Classic Camp Stove spiritburner.com site has a repair section (FETTLING) which explains how to remove the carbon from the burners. I bought burners from these people but would have tried to clean them first if I had known about the Classic Stove site.
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