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Old 17-06-2013, 15:51   #121
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Re: Marelon seacock failure

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Originally Posted by NahanniV View Post
Groco had a quality problem about the time your valves were installed. They have a service bulletin on their website:

"... GROCO's design for the imported valves series shown above specified a high-grade stainless steel valve stem. We have discovered that the stem material used in some of the valves manufactured between 2004 and 2006 may not have complied with our specifications. Valves with out-of-spec stems may not be suitable for salt-water use. Since the non-compliant silver color stems may fail when the valve is actuated we wish to have all such valves removed from service. GROCO will supply replacement valves at no charge.
..."

NICE so how do i get replacement Groko Ball valves?
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Old 17-06-2013, 15:59   #122
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Re: Marelon seacock failure

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Originally Posted by Highland Fling View Post
NICE so how do i get replacement Groko Ball valves?
See the bulletin:

SERVICE-BULLETIN

I'm sure they would be happy to help you resolve the problem.
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Old 17-06-2013, 16:23   #123
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Re: Marelon seacock failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by NahanniV View Post
See the bulletin:

SERVICE-BULLETIN

I'm sure they would be happy to help you resolve the problem.


Thanks for that BUT no Cigar for me.


AH HA.....Visually inspect the valve(s) on your boat. If the valve has a stainless steel stem (silver color), the valve should be replaced during the next scheduled haul-out.. Valves with a brass stem (yellow color) require no further action.

BUT MY VALVES do have the SOFT BRASS stem...which is the problem as it does not rotate a stiff ball valve and the corners come off then it is rounded and useless..... and here was me thinking a stainless stell shaft was a better solution.....they seem to think NOT!!!

I guess they are worried about electrolysis which wont trouble my Marelon fittings
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Old 17-06-2013, 19:34   #124
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Re: Marelon seacock failure

David,

You're absolutely correct that with the Forespar product you'll have no electrolysis problems. From the pictures, it looks like you got one of the Chinese Groco ball valves. Groco, unlike Forespar re. Catalina, has put out a bulletin regarding their problems.

My boat was in the Caribbean for close to 10 years and when I sold it 4 years ago, all the thru-hulls were in excellent working condition. They were Apollo flanged seacocks. I'm not endorsing Apollo by any means. So it appears that you've got a defective product or have a serious stray current issue, or both.

All I did was provide you with the facts about Marelon and the 93 design. I leave it up to you as to what you do with it. The weakest point on your boat will now be the 15 nylon nuts that the handle bolt screws into. I can say that from a molding perspective those nut threads are 98% straight nylon and after a few months in the warm Caribbean waters will be saturated and the threads will be very soft. My suggestion is to always open or close the valves using a straight line pressure on the handle, any serious pressure on the handle away from the valve can strip the threads, see the Catalina bulletin. Also, the safest position for the handle, impact wise, is in the open position.

I'm curious, did you end up replacing the 1/2" for a 3/4" and did you keep the 3/4" size valves or go to 1".

Marelon is nothing more than Dupont's standard Zytel nylon 66 with a 13% glass loading. A 1930's plastic material with a little glass thrown in for strength, not what one would call "space aged." The Concorde (1969), when compared to Marelon, is truly "space aged."

Regarding the Concord analogy, you state "I have a plastic boat so why not plastic thu hulls/sea-cocks" I couldn't agree more. In fact, I can tell you of several plastic materials that exceed all the ABYC/UL criteria by a country mile, even when saturated in water. Here are two pictures of a Marelon tailpiece and a tailpiece made of one of those plastics. Since you stated, "I am going with the flush thru hulls so no worries about wiping out a plastic fitting that is proud of the hull surface." it's obvious that impact is a concern of yours. As you'll see the Marelon tailpiece was wiped out in 2 hits using only 3 ft of gravity and an 8 lb weight. The other material tailpiece lasted 18 hits and, while cracked would still get you home. So, YES, I agree a plastic boat should have a plastic thru-hull and seacock. I just don't think 1930 technology nylon is the appropriate material. It is, however, cheap and easy to mold.

Dave, I hope we do hear from you on this forum and that the no situation arises in your cruising that will cause the problem to reveal itself.

Fair winds
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Old 17-06-2013, 20:35   #125
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Re: Marelon seacock failure

Fuss,

Regarding aluminum and steel boats, to be honest there's only one plastic ball valve I know of that I'd recommend, but it sells for around $200.00 for the 1 1/2" size. And they have a full range of sizes. These are serious industrial quality valves. Otherwise, below the waterline, there aren't any I'd recommend, as you can imagine, that includes Forespar.

However, given the issues with aluminum boats there are a few polypropylene ball valves that you might consider, but don't feel it's appropriate to mention them on the forum. If you look around you'll find some 4 bolt polypropylene ball valves that might do the trick. They're heavy duty and re-buildable. Polypropylene is a bit more brittle than nylon, but I think the design clearly compensates for that.

As I mentioned before, I did a serious amount of work with a marine product of my own using a plastic material that makes Marelon seem like cardboard, and the material exceed both the ABYC and UL standards.

I'm 70 and no longer making the product. However, I do have some fittings that might work for you as an isolator if you use an aluminum coupler with it. They're clearly stronger than aluminum. I have some left over, if you or anyone else with an aluminum boat would be interested in looking at one or even trying one I'd be happy to send you one as long as you're willing to pay postage. I might have 20 to 30 in a box in the cellar they're 1 1/2" diameter only.

That's the best information I have to offer at this time.
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Old 18-06-2013, 15:04   #126
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Re: Marelon seacock failure

Fuss,

For what it's worth, of the two (93 seacock or ball valve) I think you'll find the ball valve to be a far stronger unit. Why? The seacock and ball valve share the same basic components except for the seacock base. One of the known weak points of the seacock is that the 4 SS bolts screw into nylon threads in the base. They have been known to tear out.

The 93 ball valve is bolted together with 4 SS bolts and 4 SS nuts. This is a reasonable design for Marelon (AKA Dupont Zytel glass filled nylon.)

The only issue then is your comfort level internal design and the fact that the weakest point of the valve is a nylon nut.

Here's a picture of the 93 ball valve.

Also here's a picture of a polypropylene 2 1/2" ball valve used in agricultural irrigation. No this isn't a seacock, it's simply a ball valve with a flanged adaptor.
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Old 18-06-2013, 15:06   #127
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Re: Marelon seacock failure

Fuss,

Here are the pictures.
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Old 21-06-2013, 10:01   #128
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Re: Marelon seacock failure

Another FAN!!! i guess he did not read about how dangerous they are here

Enjoy

Building A Westsail 42, Hull #60: Thru-hulls

http://www.westsail42.com/search/label/Thru-hulls

http://www.westsail42.com/2009/02/fl...llseacock.html
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Old 21-06-2013, 12:15   #129
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Re: Marelon seacock failure

Highland - Whether it's your boat or the Westsail 42 you mention, the safety of both boats, the weakest point on either boat, is one nylon nut. And on your boat, that's multiplied by 15. And that is a fact. The only fact about your anecdotal evidence is that someone with a Westsail 42 is using the Forespar's 93 series seacocks.

There is a term for your presentation of the Westsail piece, it's called post-purchase dissonance It a part of what's called Transactional Analysis.

FYI - Is the 93 seacock dangerous? I never said that. Again, just presented the facts. However, your anecdotal evidence comment sounds like I've got you thinking about the issue. Which is a good thing.

Fair winds
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Old 21-06-2013, 14:34   #130
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Re: Marelon seacock failure

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Highland - Whether it's your boat or the Westsail 42 you mention, the safety of both boats, the weakest point on either boat, is one nylon nut. And on your boat, that's multiplied by 15. And that is a fact. The only fact about your anecdotal evidence is that someone with a Westsail 42 is using the Forespar's 93 series seacocks.

There is a term for your presentation of the Westsail piece, it's called post-purchase dissonance It a part of what's called Transactional Analysis.

FYI - Is the 93 seacock dangerous? I never said that. Again, just presented the facts. However, your anecdotal evidence comment sounds like I've got you thinking about the issue. Which is a good thing.

Fair winds

I think the nicest thing i can suggest is that we agree to disagree YOU wont change my view on this and i KNOW i wont change yours.

You have your strongly held views on these Forespar Marelon fittings.

Whether it is rational or not is debatable.

But without any shadow of a doubt you moved into your opinions your version of the truth and you are certainly wrong on one fact/point

I dont have any post purchase issues at all - as i have not as yet purchased any Forespar/Marelon fittings.

Am i worried about using these Forespar Marelon fittings NOPE

Life is dangerous and i suspect i am in more danger crossing the road that dying from a failure of a Marelon seacock.

That is all i am going to say on this subject.
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Old 21-06-2013, 21:23   #131
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Re: Marelon seacock failure

Life is dangerous and i suspect i am in more danger crossing the road that dying from a failure of a Marelon seacock.

I totally agree.

Fair winds
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