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Old 05-05-2013, 20:11   #31
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Re: Marelon seacock failure

replace it with a real silicon bronze seacock, no zinc, no tin, and rest easy at night. Seacocks (UL Approved) | Robinhood Marine Center

and depending on what you have for a thru hull ditto on the silicon bronze
Thru-Hulls | Robinhood Marine Center

My 29 year old Cape Dory has 5 originals and they operate perfectly.
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Old 05-05-2013, 20:17   #32
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Re: Marelon seacock failure

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What about seacocks from Spartan? I never see them mentioned when seacock discussions come up. I know nothing about them except they claim to be bronze and, as far as I know, are the only company still making tapered plug type seacocks.
They are an excellent quality seacock though deservedly pricey. I have many out there at over 40 years old still in service and performing like new. Spartan uses 85-5-5-5 bronze and casts the valves in MA, USA and machines them in ME, USA....

If you want Spartan just pick up the phone and call Paul at Spartan Bronze where they are still made the old fashioned way.... Great product and a great company.. Sadly today only Robinhood Marine, Shannon and a couple of small Maine builders still install them on new boats....
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Old 05-05-2013, 20:53   #33
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Re: Marelon seacock failure

Also concur that the spartan seacocks are first rate. I've four still in my 41 year old vessel and they still operate very nicely.
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Old 05-05-2013, 22:44   #34
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Re: Marelon seacock failure

I guess Spartan is the last company making the old style tapered plug seacocks. Not much wrong with them but price. ($235.00 for a 3/4" Seacock)
You can buy a very good Apollo Flanged 3/4" Seacock for less than $60.00 and a lot of people think that's too expensive. That's why you see so many regular ball valves screwed directly onto thruhull fittings.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:00   #35
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I guess Spartan is the last company making the old style tapered plug seacocks. Not much wrong with them but price. ($235.00 for a 3/4" Seacock)
You can buy a very good Apollo Flanged 3/4" Seacock for less than $60.00 and a lot of people think that's too expensive. That's why you see so many regular ball valves screwed directly onto thruhull fittings.
100% agree. People want cheap so that's what they get, it is how the free market place works. However, once they have it and problems start, it is often the Chinese to blame or the "modern stuff". In the example above we can see why old fashioned hardware could be much better: it costs 4x as much as what is considered decent quality today. Of course it's better. IIRC, it can also be repaired when it starts leaking, as handling of wear is part of the tapered design.
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Old 06-05-2013, 03:08   #36
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Re: Marelon seacock failure

I have nothing against the old style flanged seacock but to quote from the Trudesign website:-
"The internal workings are moulded in a Teflon enhanced polymer for a smooth action, also ensuring continuous ease of operation over many years."

The ball is not made from nylon and water absorption should be minimal. From Wikipedia :- "Water absorption (ASTM) <0.03 % after 24 hours".
A quick search suggests that nylon has water absorption of from 0.7% to 9.5% depending on type and conditions.

I fully agree that if impact resistance is essential then installing a much larger valve and reducing to size is a good idea.

Bronze is no longer a common alloy and much may be produced in less than perfectly quality controlled conditions. Loss of some zinc from a propeller is annoying. The same loss from a seacock could be catastrophic.
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Old 06-05-2013, 05:28   #37
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Re: Marelon seacock failure

I am not a big fan of the cone type valves like spartan. The problem is they are hard to move after they have been sitting for a bit. You have to loosen the nut and tap the cone loose to get them to move. I write them up all the time during surveys because I cannot move them by hand pressure and the Spartans in particular are missing handles. In an emergency this can be a difficult. You would have to find a wrench and hammer just to close the valve. I can just imagine doing this at sea at night with water pouring into your boat. Most owners I run across have no clue how to do this and for them the valve is just stuck and they may do more damage trying to close it if not done right. There is no perfect solution I see other than plan of replacing your valves every 10-15 years and at the very least servicing them once a year at haul out time.
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Old 06-05-2013, 05:35   #38
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Most owners I run across have no clue how to do this and for them the valve is just stuck and they may do more damage trying to close it if not done right. There is no perfect solution I see other than plan of replacing your valves every 10-15 years and at the very least servicing them once a year at haul out time.
There is another point; owners have changed over time. Today, many (not us off-course ) will refuse to learn such things, demanding solutions that require no specific knowledge. The market complies.
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Old 06-05-2013, 09:05   #39
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Re: Marelon seacock failure

See the white plastic plug in the handle? Just pull that out and it fits watertight into the thruhull. You can pull off the valve as long as you want and no water is coming in. It is not a kludge - that is its purpose.

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Old 06-05-2013, 09:51   #40
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Re: Marelon seacock failure

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I guess Spartan is the last company making the old style tapered plug seacocks. Not much wrong with them but price. ($235.00 for a 3/4" Seacock)
You can buy a very good Apollo Flanged 3/4" Seacock for less than $60.00 and a lot of people think that's too expensive. That's why you see so many regular ball valves screwed directly onto thruhull fittings.
That's nothing. Want to increase my cockpit drains from 1.5" to 2". Looked at the Spartan 2" bronze seacock. $775. Plus $145 each for new thru-hulls. By the time I'm done it would be over $2000. Ouch!!!
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Old 06-05-2013, 10:15   #41
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Re: Marelon seacock failure

Colemj, the photo you posted is of the new improved Marlon seacock. If the OP had that, he probably wouldn't have broken the stem. The old style doesn't come with that nice plug.

They are only trying to sell the new style to boat builders. There are so many different versions of it that it is unlikely you would find one on a marine store shelf.
It's a very clever system with lots of variables.
Here is a link to it: Boat Marine Plumbing OEM Smart Valve Thru Hull
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Old 06-05-2013, 10:57   #42
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Re: Marelon seacock failure

This is BC where it really never gets that cold--although once in a long while the mighty Fraser has frozen--Anyway--my insurance company and the surveyor told me I had to replace all through hulls with bronze including valves that would last "..at least three freeze cycles...". On my steel boat I used stainless steel valves used in lumber mills I found at scrap yards. Don't the Marelon valves have replaceable handles??
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Old 06-05-2013, 11:21   #43
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Re: Marelon seacock failure

I've been using the Forespar OEM "Series 93" valve pictured above for over 10 years. Much prefer them to bronze - including the Spartan I used to have several boats ago as they require quite a bit more maintenance. Never broken a Series 93 handle. Never had one get stiff (I do exercise them a few times year). I don't know why Forespar doesn't take the old style off the market. It gives them a bad name.

The only caution with the Series 93 is you must use their special tail piece. Defender sells them (sometimes a special order).
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Old 06-05-2013, 11:34   #44
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Re: Marelon seacock failure

This thread has really been informative transcending a variety of seacocks. The seacock I have to replace looks nothing like the one in the picture above. I must have a cheaper or older version. I will likely just replace the seacock for now, hopefully with the newer version - as long as it is compatible with the thru-hull. When the boat is in the yard (at least another year away, hopefully), I will be attending to all the thru-hulls and seacocks as well as the bottom job, keel bolts, etc.
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Old 06-05-2013, 11:36   #45
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Re: Marelon seacock failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by HopCar View Post
Colemj, the photo you posted is of the new improved Marlon seacock. If the OP had that, he probably wouldn't have broken the stem. The old style doesn't come with that nice plug.

They are only trying to sell the new style to boat builders. There are so many different versions of it that it is unlikely you would find one on a marine store shelf.
It's a very clever system with lots of variables.
Here is a link to it: Boat Marine Plumbing OEM Smart Valve Thru Hull

The Marelon seacocks on our boat are 15 years old and all of them (3 different sizes) have that plastic plug in the handle for the purpose of plugging the thruhull to do work on the valve. So I don't know what is new and improved about the newer ones.

Mark
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