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Old 09-11-2007, 06:20   #16
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A magnet is in a sense 'stored energy',
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Originally Posted by Alan Wheeler View Post
No sorry it is not.
You can prove this. if it were the case of "stored energy", putting two magents together would either create more energy, or they would use up the energy, depending on what way you oreintate them.
I respectfully disagree, and apparently so do some professors from Stanford. Magnetism and the Sun: Stored Energy in Magnetic Fields
The final aspect of magnetism that is necessary to have a basic understanding of the dynamics on the surface of the Sun is the idea that magnetic fields can store energy. The energy stored in a magnetic field is essentially the total amount of work required to assemble a system of moving charges. Stored energy in magnetic fields can be illustrated in the following experiment with a pair of magnets.

Magnet Acrobatics:
Equipment:
Two magnets
Procedure:
  1. Place a magnet on the table and hold it in place with one hand.
  2. Orient the other magnet above the one on the table such that each pole faces the same pole on the other magnet.
  3. Bring the top magnet down onto the other one on the table. The magnets should repel each other as you do this. Hold the stacked magnets together.
  4. Let go of the magnets, being sure to move your hands out of the way. The magnets will perform their acrobatics.
What's Going On?
When the two magnets are brought together, a force must be exerted for a given distance, i.e. work is being done to bring these two magnets together. Energy in the form of moving magnets is released when the one lets go of them. This release of energy causes them to jump.
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Old 09-11-2007, 07:01   #17
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I think we should all stick to sailing

The first captain to install the magnetic fridge aboard should post and tell us all about it.

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Old 09-11-2007, 07:06   #18
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I only submitted the link because I thought it was interesting. I like the thought of "outside the box" thinking. I'd be sailing except the weather is bringing the winterizing chore for all the critical systems. I can't wait till I winterize by heading south, unfortunately not this year.
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Old 09-11-2007, 07:37   #19
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Maybe a giant magnet on the moon and a giant copper girdle around the equator to power the planet?

Not at the price for copper these days.

Um thinking outside the ice box would be great. More inventions, have been knocked by naysayers over the years. Who would have ever thought that we could send people into space. Who would have thought that they could cure some of the radical diseases, that plagued man kind. Who would have ever thought that a computer could drive a car on its own.
I say hell give it a try they did not provide enough specifics about the way it works (for good reason). Could not hurt to have a way to reduce our energy consumption aa the fridge usually runs 24-7.
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Old 09-11-2007, 07:58   #20
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Magnetic refrigerators exploit the magnetocaloric effect (MCE) - the ability of some metals to become hot when magnetized and cool when demagnetized.

The magnetic refrigerator consists of a wheel that contains segments of gadolinium powder (or other magnetocaloric materials), and a high-powered, rare earth permanent magnet.
The wheel is arranged to pass through a gap in the magnet where the magnetic field is concentrated. As it passes through this field, the gadolinium in the wheel exhibits a large magnetocaloric effect - it heats up. After entering the field, water is circulated to draw the heat out of the metal. As the gadolinium leaves the magnetic field, the material cools further as a result of the magnetocaloric effect. A second stream of water is cooled by the gadolinium. This water is then circulated through the refrigerator's cooling coils.
The permanent magnets and the gadolinium don't require any energy inputs to make them work, so the only energy it takes is the electricity for the motors to spin the wheel and drive the water pumps.
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Old 09-11-2007, 08:08   #21
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Now that makes a whole lot more sense.

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Old 09-11-2007, 09:29   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Wheeler View Post
No sorry it is not.
You can prove this. if it were the case of "stored energy", putting two magents together would either create more energy, or they would use up the energy, depending on what way you oreintate them. Seeing as a magnet does not lose magnitism(as long as it is not demagnitised) then if it was energy, it could be said that a magnet was a perfect conductor and Non-conductor at room temperature. Which we know is not true. The only super conductors we know of are such only at minus 200+ deg.
Sure a magnet can store energy. If you take two magnets and pull them apart one inch, then you have stored energy. If you release the magnets and they come back together then the energy has been released as heat energy. You are doing the same thing by stretching out a rubber band.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potential_energy
Kinetic energy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Potential and Kinetic Energy
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Old 09-11-2007, 10:55   #23
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Stored energy in magnetic fields
Arrrr, now you see, that is different. It is not the magentic field itself that has the energy, it is the fact the magnetic feild can hold and thus store energy.
Same as above David. The actual energy comes from the effort you put into the movement of the magnets, not the feilds themselves.
Now after reading Gords discription of the fridge, I understand what they are tryign to do. But once again, the magnetic field is not what is producing the energy. It is the movement of the substance through the field. The heat energy comes from the energy that has been imparted to the coolant to move it through the field. The one thing about a magnetic field is that there is very little loss in converting energy. Hence why it is more efficient. The only losses are in the resistance of say, the copper wire moving through the field. Or the friction of the coolant moving through the pipe etc. Without these resisitances, there is no imparting of energy into them. It is a relation of resistance to movment or change that becomes the catylist to creating different energy. In a wire, it becomes a movment of electrons and thus electricity. But the actuall amount of electricity is a dirrect proportion to the amount of energy that went into movign the wire itself.
To say this in another similar way, if the magnet itself was the energy source, then everytime the wire or coolant moved through it, the magnetic field would also reduce by the same amount as the energy imparted into the wire/coolant. Thus it would become a "flat" magnet very quickly.
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Old 09-11-2007, 11:03   #24
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I never said the magnet or the magnetic field is producing the energy...I said the exact opposite. All I said was that magnets can store and release energy as Potential and Kinetic energy and that magnetic fields can be used as a conduit for transferring energy.

I think we are thinking the same thing just in different terms Alan.

Cheers

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Old 09-11-2007, 13:17   #25
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Here is some more on the DTU MagCool project.

MagCool

How is a magnetic field used for cooling?
Magnetic cooling technology exploits the fact that when a magnetic material, in this case the element gadolinium, is magnetised, heat is produced as a by-product of entropy. The principle of entropy is that there will always be a constant amount of order/disorder in a substance. When the magnet puts the substance in “order”, it has to get rid of the excess disorder – and this becomes heat. Conversely, when the magnetic field is again removed, the substance becomes cold. The heat is transferred to a fluid that is pumped back and forth past the substance inside a cylinder. The end that becomes cold will be located inside the refrigerator and the warm end will be outside.

Why magnetic cooling?
It is natural to wonder: Why magnetic cooling? After all, there are decent and also relatively energy-efficient refrigerators on the market. But there are three good reasons why this type of cooling has a future.
First, the technology is potentially more energy-efficient than the alternatives. It only really uses energy to move the magnetic field to and from the magnetic material. The model currently under development produces the magnetic field through a system of powerful blocks of magnets similar to those we use on our refrigerator doors, only stronger. These do not get worn out, and thus do not need replacing, which is very good for the environment.
This leads to the second major benefit, namely the fluid, which could turn out to be just plain water. Consequently, there would not be the same environmental impact as with today’s compressor-based refrigerators. The third great potential difference is the noise level. Bahl expects their demonstration model, which should be ready in 2010, to be practically silent. The opportunities are obvious.
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Old 09-11-2007, 13:30   #26
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but the real question
will this affect my beer cans
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Old 09-11-2007, 17:31   #27
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....I think the job of compass adjuster, just got a whole lot harded...... ; )
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Old 09-11-2007, 22:44   #28
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I think we are thinking the same thing just in different terms Alan.
Yeah it's that accent of mine again. :-)

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but the real question
will this affect my beer cans
Only if they are steel cans :-)
The more inportant worry, if a magnetic field can destroy algae in fuel, then what will it do to the beer :-(
Good thing I think magnets and fuel are balony :-)

Coops, I can just imagine a path across the Tasman. A swing to Starboard every time the fridge came on and return to Port when it cycled off.
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Old 10-11-2007, 16:09   #29
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You are showing your age.

Things more astounding than this will come to pass in the years ahead.

I nearly have a Dick Tracey watch.........it is called a cell phone!

I believe if magnatism can be figured out then so can gravity. I feel the two are somehow directly related. When true "anti-gravity" exists things will be really cool!!!
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Old 10-11-2007, 23:29   #30
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I believe if magnatism can be figured out then so can gravity. I feel the two are somehow directly related. When true "anti-gravity" exists things will be really cool!!!
You're looking for a gut. Grand Unified Theory. The holy grail of physics. There are four recognized forces: Strong, weak, electromagnetic, and gravity. Some theorists think they were all together as one super force before the big bang. Ever since Einstein, physicists have been trying to postulate a single theory into which all four forces fit. The more you study the field, the you feel.

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