LPG Gas Fitting and Compliance in Australia

[DotDun]

I use this system and placed the SV-1 solenoid on the high pressure side of the regulator. The control head sits right next to a manifold in the galley cupboard that has a manual shutoff at the input and a individual manual valves for each the cooktop and oven. I also added the 2nd sniffer. The solenoid is only powered while cooking.

S2A - Fireboy-Xintex

I have a spare solenoid and am thinking about putting it on the low pressure side of the regulator as a safety/backup. I need to check if the controller will power 2 solenoids at the same time.

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I don't think "absolute ignition protected" exists on earth, but a good marine gas solenoid is supposed to be designed to at least reduce the risk. The Nereus ones are rated ISO 8846 and EN 28846 for ignition protection. Probably why they cost and arm and a leg. I don't think that means they're fail-safe, however.

I reckon a valve placed immediately after the regulator inside the locker connected to a remote actuator via a rod or bowden cable would be an ideal solution.

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[Sailor42]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

RC,

Get a second opinion. With your LPG outboard on the stern, where it cannot possible flow into the boat if something goes wrong at that end, maybe a different chap--or sheila--will give you a different idea about how to address the issues. You keep quiet, and let them tell you the plan, before you start asking questions.

Cheers, mate,

Ann

I completely agree with Ann. I had my installation approved in Queensland ( on purchase of my vessel) as a requirement for insurance. I then sailed to " home base" in Hobart, Tasmania, where I was told that I needed a new certificate done in Tasmania to register the vessel. The first gas guru gave me a long list of things he had to fix or renew which he claimed were according to Tasmanian rules. I checked with other marine engineers, who told me that I had been fed a load of BS, and to get another gas fitter. The new guru checked the system end-to-end while I observed, said " no worries, mate, all good", and issued the certificate. I am reliably informed that you should have the system certified, as apart from obvious peace of mind, any gas-related fire/damage from an un-certified installation will almost certainly void your insurance ( apart from the clear and present danger).

[undercutter]

Just to follow up I followed the link that Gord posted for the current gas standardrs and wouldn't you know it being this part of the world there is about a $200.00 charge to actually get the doc's. so I went to the West Australia link and some observations;

-rules do not apply to barbecues

--gas sensors are only required if appliances are installed in the bilge

-shut offs are required for every appliance

-gas bottles (except for barbeques I assume) must be installed in weather proof, ventilated containers)

-and apparently the will prosecute you if you work on your own installation. another way for the crackers to make money here.

These marine rated shut off solenoids are not expensive. They are only expensive over here!!!!

[Wotname]

AFAIK, registered (certified), gas fitters are state registered and even they are not permitted to work on gas systems in other states. Rules do vary between states.
At least this was the case a few years back.

[RaymondR]

Go to a business which does conversions to gas on motor vehicles and buy one of the solenoids they use on gas powered vehicles. They are usually cheaper than those sold for use on stoves and better quality(rated for continuous on) and lower price.


The whole gas thing here in Australia has become a make work racket.


A friend sailed his new 18 month old boat from WA to Queensland and made the mistake of asking whether his WA gas certificate was valid when he went to transfer the registration. $800 later he had a "new" installation which complied with Queensland "requirements". The new looked pretty well the same as the old and used the same fittings throughout.


There is probably an Australian Standard on gas fitting for vessels but each State interprets it to suit their own nefarious purposes. Nothing one can do about it, it's inherent to the political system.

[Outwest34au]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

It makes me wonder how many boats in Australia are appropriately certified for gas?

Probably dozens..

Australian standards include length of drainage hose in a locker type environment and insist on a high pressure side lock-off.
Some members have posted appropriate links here that are relevant and mandatory.
I had extensive conversations with Goyen and they are (in Au at least) the industry experts in this field.
A while back I took on a challenge to convert a $13 gas detector to meet the requirements of A/S. This was easily done with some circuit board rewiring and a few other tweaks, but this doesn't mean it is approved by the authorities, just that it functions the same as an A/S approved unit. The devil is in the detail of the wording.

There are home made systems that work, there is logic and common sense, and then there are systems that meet "official" requirements.

My background is in automotive LPG but I am prohibited from working on a boat system even though a boat may or may not be considered a waterborne vehicle as it gets generally from A to B and carries persons or goods.

The high cost of approved systems is what inspired me to make something affordable and safe. Unfortunately development slowed as I just spent 5 months repairing my boat after it was struck at mooring by an unidentified underwater gremlin and split the hull. Since there is genuine interest and need for something affordable I might dig that project out and continue. However, the suitable solenoid will be the expensive part compared to the rest of the unit.

[Akapeterc]

I bought a new regulator with solenoid from Gameco when my solenoid died.

[Akapeterc]

Bought from Gameco


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[scaredycat]

Try this for a suitable solenoid:

AFC 151 (12v) available on eBay from Century Fuel Products for about USD 20.00.

The AFC 151 (12v) is compact multi-purpose 2 way normally closed solenoid shut off valve that will provide On/Off control of air, gas and other media. The valve has one inlet and one outlet and does not pass fluid or air until the coil is energized. Pipe Size: 1/4" NPT Orifice: 0.110 Cv: 0.35 Pressure rated up to 312PSI Also available in 24v; please call for ordering information.
Engineered for use in automotive, industrial, and refrigeration applications.
Features and Specifications

• Working pressure 30 PSI
• Orifice size .110”
• Machined with 1/4” male pipe outlet
• 100,000 cycle tested. Extensive test data available
• Minimum draw - 12VDC wheN fully energized
• Stocking 12 and 24 volt DC (110VAC available upon request)
• Optional wire connecting terminals
• OEM approved
• Ambient Temperature rating -40°F to +250°F, or 170° Fluid
• Superior quality construction, corrosion resistant —solid brass, plated steel and anodized aluminum
• Rated for use with fuel, air and other media
• All valves are date coded
• Every unit 100% functionally tested for low/high pressure leaks and dielectric breakdown
• One year warranty

Its the minimum safety device I would consider along with a detector in the bilge.

[takeabow40]

I got a plumber/gasfitter to do mine just check out the regs for caravans in the state your in for guidance

[billgewater]

My gas story.
When I built my yacht in WA there was no facility nor requirement to have gas installations certified on private vessels. However, I did have a local gas fitter check out everything and ensure that all was as best he could advise. He regularly did boat and caravan installations. He used standard half inch copper piping with rubber supports etc . The stove is not gimballed but the junction is as provided by the stove makers; a flexible rubber hose.
When in Fremantle WA, I met a sailor who had an incident where the gimballed oven flexible supply hose ruptured while they were making bread (due to the excessive wake of a passing motor launch). They were standing nearby on a jetty but within minutes the leaking gas must have reached the flame causing the hatches to blow off and start a fire. They saved the boat but much work was needed.
I am aware of a Kimberly charter operator (under WA rules) who has a small (2 KG) gas bottle inside his yacht adjacent to the stove. It meets the WA requirements which seems a bit weird to me. The apparent justification is that the smaller bottles are not as dangerous. I believe he carries a small pile of these bottles elsewhere on the yacht. Weird.
Years later in Darwin a sailor was blown completely off the aft deck of his yacht when leaking gas reached the pilot flame on his gas driven refrigerator. By the time he got back on board a good fire had taken hold but he extinguished it. The furled main and headsails were lost as well. The boat was ferro cement so the hull suffered no damage (fibre glass or wood may have had a different outcome) but the interior joinery was largely a write off. Recently I saw a caravan that was lost due to the same problem. It was a complete write off.
In the NT there was and still is no requirement for private vessels to meet any specifications or certification (private vessels don’t even require registration, as yet).
In Queensland, the current circumstances are very different. All private vessels must be registered irrespective of size. The registration papers ask about gas facilities and that falls into two categories. If you have an external (e.g. aft deck) gas barbecue and no internal gas lines, then no certification is required. However if there are internal lines or appliances, then all hell breaks loose.
I sought out a local certifier who turned up and gave my boat a cursory check out. Asked for $100 then signed a slip stating that all was OK. He didn’t request that anything be changed. After about 3 months I took the slip into the boat registry people who told me it was out of date and I needed to redo the certification. I could not find the original chap only to discover that he had died of cancer. Apparently he had been signing off on installations at the rate of a few every day, to cover health costs! We found a new chap who found fault with just about everything on our boat. We have a diesel gen.set in the lazarette and he said we could not pass gas lines through an engine room nor could we run exposed gas lines above the deck. But our bottles had to be overboard at the aft (over the transom). Basically it was impossible to meet the requirements! The gas piping would all have to be replaced with lagged pipe. We needed two (solenoid cut out) detectors. One immediately under the gas appliance and another in the bilge. The stove had to be replaced with one with automatic cut offs if the flame failed. (However, I am not sure that auto cut requirements apply to gas ovens or gas grills.) This inspector then suggested that I just state that I didn’t use gas inside the boat! Consequences? Mainly to do with insurance. State registration is about money gathering. No consequences except you can be fined for not having current registration. Insurance is about you feeding money to a company that has little intention of giving any back or meeting conditions to rent marina space. Thus the screeds of fine/small print.
Get the best information available and be aware that that spiffy plastic European boat going at a bargain price might require a small fortune to be spent to meet local gas certification requirements. Oh yes, the insurance and state requirements are usually different!
I have a switch with inbuilt flashing red LEDS that allow solenoid selection from either of the two gas bottles – or both OFF. After cooking, these LEDS are exceptionally annoying and face the saloon area. The switch and LEDS cost about $10.
The gas cut off solenoids were obtained from a vehicle gas installer and are immediately after the pressure reducers at the bottles. Can’t recall the price but well under $100 for all the bits I also have installed automatic cut offs with inbuilt meters at both bottles (available everywhere; about $30 each). Best investment ever made. Hope they work!
We did have a bilge gas detector with an audible alarm but it would go off if the missus used hair spray or insect repellent so it has been disconnected. It also requires testing whenever turned on as the detecting surface needs to be heated to drive off previously absorbed volatile gases.
If you install the lagged gas lines be aware that they have a problem. If there is a leak due to unseen corrosion or stress cracking, then the gas will migrate between the pipe and lagging and appear only at a break in the lagging making it very difficult to find the source of the leak. I understand that this problem may have caused some regulation changes in WA.

[Johnno]

As Gord May recommended, look at the Aus/NZ standard but remember that Australian States have differing regulations. Our Cheoy Lee was compliant in New South Wales but not in Queensland 2 years ago and we had to upgrade to the Qld standard in order to re-register her. The BIG also is that if the installation is not compliant with the state regulation in which the vessel is registered - your insurance is invalid and if there is a fire you loose out totally and may be stuck with wreck salavage costs, site clean up costs, etc, etc.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by undercutter

A solenoid valve at the cooker or at the propane tank?

No, a 'shut off valve' at the cooker and a solenoid at the tank, or outside the cabin.

Hard to believe that there is an Australian standard as it seems that this would be a state regulation.

All our states adopt Australian standards and yes, there is an Australian Standard for installing gas on boats and caravans.

When we were in Darwin I tried to source a new 12v solenoid from the local chandleries and no one stocked them or even knew what I was talking about. Looked in Queensland just out of curiosity and no one had them there either. Asked a few boaties that we have met and no one has or has even heard of these devices?????

As the solenoid is installed just after the regulator at the tank I would suggest that you just do the work yourself. The sensor is installed low in the bilge and all that is required is to run some simple 12v electrical circuits. There is no need to do anything with the existing lpg plumbing at all except install the solenoid at the tank. There are 2 types, high pressure and low pressure. Recommend the low pressure type that goes after the regulator as I have heard of problems with the high pressure type.

I'm not sure how I would go doing the welding? And at the moment I don't want to put a solonoid outside where it will get salt water spray on on it.

My only other suggestion would be to order this device from the US or Canada as when I tried to order one here it was 10 times the price even though they are made in New Zealand. $349.00 in Australia, $39,00 in Canada, same manufacturer, same model # but this was just for the solenoid not the whole system. Defender would probably be your best bet. Comes with all the instructions required.

Many people recommend that you still shut off the gas manually at the tank even though there is an automatic shut off as well as a manual switch to close the solenoid after you install this system. I would conclur with that, but there are times when I simply forget and that could be deadly.

I have a solonoid, so I don't have to purchase a new one. It's the fitting of it that is the problem.

[scaredycat]

In South Australia, it comes under the control of The Office of the Technical Regulator.
It basically says that compliance must be iaw AS/NZS 5601.2. Here is the link:

https://www.sa.gov.au/topics/water-e...and-gas-safety