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Old 06-07-2011, 07:18   #31
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Re: Peggy Please Help ! JABSCO Head Bubbling

I'm sorry...it was late and I think every boat owner on the planet had some kind of toilet or odor problem over the 4th, 'cuz I'd been covered up all day...I was tired and came across a bit crankier than I meant to. I certainly didn't imply that you're a fool...only that, like most people, you want to do as little work as possible to solve a problem so you seem to want to take a scatter gun approach...which usually results in more work than a methodical approach.

No, it actually doesn't make sense to have a rebuild kit in hand when you remove the discharge hose--actually the discharge fitting--from the toilet. The only thing that will be accessible is the joker valve. You'd have to remove the whole toilet and take the bowl off to open up the pump to use anything else in the kit...rebuilding a Jabsco macerating toilet is major PITA job! You can't even replace the intake pump impeller without removing the discharge impeller and macerator blade. If the joker valve hasn't been replaced in more than two years, it needs to be replaced anyway...and taking the discharge hose off to check for a buildup provides an opportunity to do that. But whatever is causing the back pressure is downstream of the toilet...rebuilding it won't fix it. Electric toilets, unlike manual toilets, rarely need rebuilding...only every 5-6 years if even that often. You've said it's a Jabsco...which one?

So how should you proceed? I've mentioned this a couple of times: you've said that when the toilet bubbles back you can hear the sound of air trying to escape somewhere. Find out exactly where that sound is coming from, 'cuz it's an important clue!

Again...didn't mean to insult you. If I did, I apologize.
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Old 07-07-2011, 07:33   #32
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If it's any help I have both a manual and an electric jabsco. ( I like jabsco toilets). Both are fairly old both produce a few bubbles after pumping. I always put this down to trapped air as a result of the pumping action finding the easiest wAy out. No unusual smells ( well no more then usual). It's not a holding tank issue as I don't legally need them.

Dave
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Old 07-07-2011, 08:39   #33
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Re: Peggy Please Help ! JABSCO Head Bubbling

My guess is still that the air you hear is from the vented loop doing it's job. The vented loop is the only thing in the system that is supposed to let air in beside the tank vent. You've already checked the tank vent.
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Old 07-07-2011, 09:48   #34
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Re: Peggy Please Help ! JABSCO Head Bubbling

Quote:
Originally Posted by peghall View Post
No, it actually doesn't make sense to have a rebuild kit in hand when you remove the discharge hose--actually the discharge fitting--from the toilet. The only thing that will be accessible is the joker valve. You'd have to remove the whole toilet and take the bowl off to open up the pump to use anything else in the kit...rebuilding a Jabsco macerating toilet is major PITA job!
Maybe I don't know what I'm doing. I have a Jabsco 37245-1092. I used the Jabsco 90197-0000 kit and it took about 20 minutes. I've had MUCH worse jobs to do.

I'll reiterate that I start to see bubbles when I release the flush button every two or three years and putting a kit in (you might as well do the gaskets and o-rings when you do the joker valve) makes it stop. Symptoms are independent of pumping into the holding tank or overboard.

So what am I missing?

RobH - I think you are on the right track.
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Old 07-07-2011, 09:52   #35
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Re: Peggy Please Help ! JABSCO Head Bubbling

I have a Raritan compact 2 manual toilet, and I had the same problem. When I pumped the toilet, a little waste would seep back into the bowl. I thought the joker valve was going bad, but then I remembered that I had installed a vent line air filter a couple of years ago and didn't replace it last year. So I thought maybe that was the problem. What i did to test my theory was open the deck fill fitting (to let air in and out) and try flushing the toilet then. When I did that, no waste seeped back into the bowl, so I just replaced the vent line filter and that fixed the problem. (I'm beginning to think that the cost of the vent filter isn't worth it, so next time I think I'll just put a length of hose there instead.)

I haven't rebuilt the head in 6 years, but I religiously dump "head lube" into it and it's still working fine.

Good luck,
Chris Ferro
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Old 07-07-2011, 14:15   #36
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Re: Peggy Please Help ! JABSCO Head Bubbling

5-6 years is about the right interval for rebuilding toilets, so it's time to do it. The joker valve should be replace annually if you want to the toilet pump efficiently.

Few people know what the real function of the joker valve is in a manual toilet...Most people think that the only thing the joker valve does is acts as a check valve to stop backflow from returning to the toilet or odor from the tank from escaping through the toilet. But that's not a joker valve's most important function...in fact, the joker valve is THE single most important replaceable part in a manual toilet.

Here’s how the discharge half of the pump works: On the upstroke of the piston, a vacuum is created in the area beneath the piston. This causes the joker valve to close tightly, and the flapper valve beneath the pump to open, allowing some of the contents of the toilet bowl to be drawn into the bottom half of the pump. Then, on the down stroke of the piston, the flapper valve is slammed shut, and the effluent is forced out of the bottom of the pump, through the joker valve, and off down the line. But when the joker valve becomes worn and/or there's a buildup of sea water minerals on it, it can no longer seal tightly on the upstroke of the piston...less vacuum is generated when you pump it. And as it becomes more worn less and less vacuum, till finally the bowl contents simply move up and down a bit, but don't go anywhere unless they get a little help from gravity.

All of which explains why the joker valve should be replaced annually. Sometimes the flapper valve needs to be replaced too, which is why toilets should also be rebuilt at least every 5-6 years as PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE.

Btw...Raritan discontinued the Compact II at the end of 2010. Their only manual toilets now are the PH II and the PHC, which uses the PH II pump, but on a compact base and has a shorter handle.
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Old 31-07-2011, 19:22   #37
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Re: Peggy Please Help ! JABSCO Head Bubbling

Peggy, after I said "it's still working fine," I went back to the boat and the blue Earth-Safe deodorizer stuff was seeping out of the pump assembly!

I jinxed myself!

So I did a complete rebuild last week - 3 joyous hours. The joker valve was indeed permanently open a little bit. I hadn't noticed how weak the pump had become over the years, but now the difference is stark. I've already bought another rebuild kit for the next one.

So I think I can safely say: NOW everything's working fine...

Chris


Quote:
Originally Posted by peghall View Post
5-6 years is about the right interval for rebuilding toilets, so it's time to do it. The joker valve should be replace annually if you want to the toilet pump efficiently.

Few people know what the real function of the joker valve is in a manual toilet...Most people think that the only thing the joker valve does is acts as a check valve to stop backflow from returning to the toilet or odor from the tank from escaping through the toilet. But that's not a joker valve's most important function...in fact, the joker valve is THE single most important replaceable part in a manual toilet.

Here’s how the discharge half of the pump works: On the upstroke of the piston, a vacuum is created in the area beneath the piston. This causes the joker valve to close tightly, and the flapper valve beneath the pump to open, allowing some of the contents of the toilet bowl to be drawn into the bottom half of the pump. Then, on the down stroke of the piston, the flapper valve is slammed shut, and the effluent is forced out of the bottom of the pump, through the joker valve, and off down the line. But when the joker valve becomes worn and/or there's a buildup of sea water minerals on it, it can no longer seal tightly on the upstroke of the piston...less vacuum is generated when you pump it. And as it becomes more worn less and less vacuum, till finally the bowl contents simply move up and down a bit, but don't go anywhere unless they get a little help from gravity.

All of which explains why the joker valve should be replaced annually. Sometimes the flapper valve needs to be replaced too, which is why toilets should also be rebuilt at least every 5-6 years as PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE.

Btw...Raritan discontinued the Compact II at the end of 2010. Their only manual toilets now are the PH II and the PHC, which uses the PH II pump, but on a compact base and has a shorter handle.
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Old 01-08-2011, 07:28   #38
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Re: Peggy Please Help ! JABSCO Head Bubbling

If "blue stuff" (what IS it, btw...a google search for "Earth Safe" didn't turn up anything) was seeping out of the pump assembly, that sounds like a cracked pump cylinder. Where was it seeping out?

I'd return the second kit. 'Cuz by then your toilet will be nearly 15 years old...at the end of its productive lifespan...the inside of the cylinder and other parts that aren't replaceable become scratched, scored and worn over time. What's more, the rubber parts in the kit will deteriorate while it sits on the shelf for 5 years. So when it starts acting up again, it's time to replace it.
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Old 07-08-2011, 08:31   #39
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Re: Peggie, Please Help ! Jabsco Head Bubbling !

The "blue stuff" is Earth Safe Head Treatment, which I bought at West Marine.

I replaced all of the gaskets and it solved the problem, so it's not cracked. As far as I can tell the toilet is 28 years old (original equipment), but it's been pretty lightly used (weekends in the summer only - the boat has always been put away for the winters here in the Chesapeake). I suppose if I have to replace it, it wouldn't be too big of a deal (probably easier than doing the rebuild!) Since they don't make the Compact 2 anymore, hopefully the PH2 or PHC would go into the same space without too much difficulty.

I thought about the gasket kit deteriorating, but I was worried about not being able to find another one in 3 or 4 years because they've discontinued the model. I rubbed all of the gaskets down with Vaseline, so hopefully that'll help keep them from dry-rotting.

Chris
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Old 07-08-2011, 08:37   #40
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Re: Peggie, Please Help ! Jabsco Head Bubbling !

Putting Vasoline on the rubber was the wrong thing to do. Vasoline is petroleum based and will damage the rubber. You need to use a silicone based grease.
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Old 07-08-2011, 08:47   #41
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Re: Peggie, Please Help ! Jabsco Head Bubbling !

Uh oh. I have silicone grease, too (I just didn't use it - I don't even know why!) This is interesting, though, because I thought "mineral oil" is a good thing to use to lubricate the rubber gaskets in the head. And isn't "mineral oil" petroleum-based? So isn't Vaseline just thicker mineral oil?

So Vaseline (and therefore mineral oil, too) will damage rubber?

I'm confused...

Chris
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Old 07-08-2011, 14:22   #42
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Re: Peggie, Please Help ! Jabsco Head Bubbling !

I don't think it'll matter much. The Raritan toilets are more durable and reliable than any others in their class, but everything has a lifespan and that of even the best quality compact manual toilet is only +/- about 10-12 years. After that it may still work, but at less than half its original efficiency...and rebuilding doesn't help much because the parts that are worn out aren't in a kit. So by the time you're ready to use that kit, something else will break before you have time to notice any deterioration in the parts in it.
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