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Old 04-07-2011, 20:45   #16
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Re: Peggy, please help me!

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I'm sorry, Peggy, but when I read this thread title, I heard "Help us, Obi Wan, you're our only hope!"

Though I find when it comes to marine heads, you do know some Jedi mind tricks...


Yup. I'm also a lot cuter than Obi Wan
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Old 04-07-2011, 21:05   #17
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Re: Peggy, please help me!

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After that, I might try a little white vinegar from the bowl, through the discharge hose and into the tank.
What do you expect to accomplish by doing that, grasshopper?
"Grasshopper"?

C'mon, if Peggy is the Obi Wan of marine sanitation, that must make me (the disciple) a young Luke Skywalker, right?

Anyway, I thought about the vinegar because I can't help but think (against the better judgment on many here) that my problem must be in the discharge hose. Why? Because I'm pretty sure that I cleared any clog in the vent hose by snaking through to the tank from the vent through-hull. IF, and that's an "IF" that is correct, then any pressure has to be in the discharge hose, right?

Of course, I do recognize the possibility that I only THINK I've cleared the vent hose. As I say, it's possible that I didn't put the snake in far enough.

Of course, the weird thing is that I must have had a clog in the vent hose to begin with because I can think of no other reason why I would have been sprayed when trying to back flush the vent when the tank was not full, nor overfilling, when all the while the deck cap for the pump out had been removed to prevent a build up of pressure from the back flushing.

Sheesh, the darn system is basically just a bunch of hoses, a tank, and a place to sit (yeah, that's "sit" for those who might read too quickly). Why, Lord? Why does marine sanitation have to be so mysterious?
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Old 04-07-2011, 21:27   #18
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Re: Peggy, please help me!

I think I mixed up my gurus... You can be Luke Skywalker if you want to, but I've got a few too many decades of time travel behind me to be Princess Leiah.

I thought about the vinegar because I can't help but think (against the better judgment on many here) that my problem must be in the discharge hose. Why? Because I'm pretty sure that I cleared any clog in the vent hose by snaking through to the tank from the vent through-hull. IF, and that's an "IF" that is correct, then any pressure has to be in the discharge hose, right?


WHICH discharge hose? Surely not the tank discharge? But no matter...I think you've figured it out...

Of course, the weird thing is that I must have had a clog in the vent hose to begin with because I can think of no other reason why I would have been sprayed when trying to back flush the vent when the tank was not full, nor overfilling, when all the while the deck cap for the pump out had been removed to prevent a build up of pressure from the back flushing.

Right...You could not have filled up the vent with water--especially enough water that was under enough pressure from whatever was blocking it to erupt back the way it came--unless there was/is something blocking it. 'Cuz unless there was/is something blocking the vent, that water would just have gone into the tank. So the first thing I'd do is finish cleaning out the vent. Take the vent line off the boat so you can get a good look at what's in the thru-hull, the tank fitting, and both ends of the vent line. When everything is clean, put it back.
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Old 04-07-2011, 22:00   #19
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Re: Peggy, please help me!

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"Grasshopper"?
The main character's nickname as a Shaolin monk in training from the television series Kung Fu.
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Old 05-07-2011, 07:13   #20
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Re: Peggy, please help me!

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Yup. I'm also a lot cuter than Obi Wan
And taller than Yoda you are...
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Old 05-07-2011, 07:55   #21
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Re: Peggy Please Help ! JABSCO Head Bubbling

Another possible cause of the bubbling is a defective one way valve in the Jabsco electric toilet's discharge port. See #11 below. If this "joker valve" is not closing and is being held open then discharge flow will back into the toilet when you stop pumping.
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Old 05-07-2011, 17:01   #22
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Re: Peggy Please Help ! JABSCO Head Bubbling

Sure. I read through 20 posts thinking of got the answer and osirissail gets it on 21. Darn. *grin* The first sign of a failing 'joker valve' on my Jabsco electric is air bubbles in the bowl when I let go of the flush button.

The rebuild kits with valve, gasket, and o-rings are cheap.
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Old 05-07-2011, 18:43   #23
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Re: Peggy Please Help ! JABSCO Head Bubbling

I think you're gonna find that replacing the joker valve will only treat the symptom, but won't cure the problem. SOMETHING is pushing waste back toward the toilet and SOMETHING caused the water you ran into vent to spit back up in your face...and that something wasn't the joker valve in the toilet.
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Old 05-07-2011, 18:53   #24
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Re: Peggy Please Help ! JABSCO Head Bubbling

Quite right, if they has been enough time for the joker valve to clog open then most probably there has been enough time for other critical parts of the system to also clog or fail. It is a good time to service the whole system so you don't have to wade through the same old sh9t again and again.
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Old 05-07-2011, 21:35   #25
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Re: Peggy Please Help ! JABSCO Head Bubbling

What did the OP say while looking in the head bowl?

"Not this **** again."
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Old 05-07-2011, 21:48   #26
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Re: Peggy Please Help ! JABSCO Head Bubbling

My lord... I know it will not be a miracle cure all, but I gotta say I am SO glad my ecovit composter is in the mail on its way to me....
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Old 05-07-2011, 22:38   #27
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Re: Peggy Please Help ! JABSCO Head Bubbling

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Another possible cause of the bubbling is a defective one way valve in the Jabsco electric toilet's discharge port. See #11 below. If this "joker valve" is not closing and is being held open then discharge flow will back into the toilet when you stop pumping.
OK, so I think I had a clog in the vent, and probably have a failing joker valve.

I ran the snake again through the vent through-hull and into the tank. There is no doubt that there is no longer an obstruction in the vent. I also emptied the holding tank without incident.

What had me puzzled is that I still had the "bubbles" after clearing the vent hose. This must be a failing joker valve.

So, I'll try a rebuild kit, but I recall reading somewhere that Peggy had recommended replacing the Jabsco electric with a Sea Era head which fits the same bolt pattern. I might look into that too. On my previous boat, I rebuilt the Jabsco head a couple of times and finally decided that I'd just replace it with a manual Raritan PH II.

Thanks to all!
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Old 05-07-2011, 22:59   #28
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Re: Peggy Please Help ! JABSCO Head Bubbling

What had me puzzled is that I still had the "bubbles" after clearing the vent hose. This must be a failing joker valve.

Maybe...maybe not. A worn joker valve usually only just allows backflow, not--as you described earlier--bubbles and the distinct sound of air trying to escape from somewhere. That's not just backflow...that's something creating back PRESSURE. Sea water mineral buildup in the head discharge hose can reduce the diameter to less than 1/2"...and that would create the kind of backpressure that produces your symptoms. So would a wet wipe jammed in a y-valve...or a kink in the discharge line. It's not uncommon for systems that have been neglected to develop more than one problem. So you could very well have a blocked tank vent AND a blockage in the discharge line...and prob'ly a worn out joker valve too. But you've done everything you can to avoid methodically working your way through the whole system to find and/or eliminate all the possible sources of your problems...instead, you've grabbed at the easiest "straws" hoping one of 'em is the right one. Now you're gonna try a rebuild kit....or maybe just replace the toilet. (What if a new toilet backs up on you too?) Sooner or later you will finally find all the problems 'cuz they'll keep ON being problems till you do. Why not save yourself a lot of unnecessary aggravation and spend a half a day solving 'em all at once and then buying only what you really need?
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Old 05-07-2011, 23:54   #29
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Re: Peggy Please Help ! JABSCO Head Bubbling

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[I]But you've done everything you can to avoid methodically working your way through the whole system to find and/or eliminate all the possible sources of your problems...instead, you've grabbed at the easiest "straws" hoping one of 'em is the right one. Now you're gonna try a rebuild kit....or maybe just replace the toilet. (What if a new toilet backs up on you too?) Sooner or later you will finally find all the problems 'cuz they'll keep ON being problems till you do. Why not save yourself a lot of unnecessary aggravation and spend a half a day solving 'em all at once and then buying only what you really need?
With all due respect, that seems unnecessarily harsh. Perhaps even condescending.

I am trying to work methodically. I started with the most probable culprit - the holding tank vent hose. I have indicated that I believed that there was a blockage, given that I was "sprayed" on my first attempt to back flush the vent. I then snaked the vent hose, and back flushed again without incident.

I posted here because I was puzzled by the persistent "bubbling" even after clearing the vent hose.

As my posts indicate, my suspicion then turned to the discharge hose from the bowl to the tank. This was "poo-poo'ed" (if you will pardon the pun) and it was suggested to me that the problem still lies within the holding tank vent. So, not being one to lightly disregard the advice of others, I returned to snake the vent hose yet again, making absolutely sure that there was no longer any clog in the vent hose.

My suspicion thus returns to the discharge from the bowl to the tank (which includes both the joker and the discharge hose). I will have to remove the discharge hose to get at the joker valve. I will have to remove the discharge hose to inspect the internals. Is it not "methodical" to have a rebuild kit in hand when I remove the discharge hose?

Peggy, if I am approaching the problem like a fool (as you seem to imply), just how, exactly, should I proceed?
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Old 06-07-2011, 00:20   #30
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Re: Peggy Please Help ! JABSCO Head Bubbling

I should mention, too, that I picked up the idea of converting from a Jabsco to a Raritan SeaEra from the following:

Peggie Hall-HeadMistress 02-05-2010 07:53 am

I'd go with the Raritan SeaEra
*
It was designed to be an identical upgrade replacement for the Jabsco 37*** series....and is available as a complete toilet or a "conversion" (everything south of the bowl) in both sea water and pressurized fresh water models. Check it out here: Raritan Sea Era*

The online store here has the complete toilets at the best prices I've seen, http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...p=653&cat=3702 but don't show the "conversion" on their price list...I dunno why they don't 'cuz they can certainly get it...so give a Dave in sbo.com customer service a call for a quote.
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