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Old 14-04-2011, 13:29   #31
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Re: International Gas Fittings

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Get out of the Middle East.
Always my answer, you have no business being in a place like that, leave it to them who live there and go home.
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Old 14-04-2011, 13:44   #32
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Re: International Gas Fittings

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Originally Posted by Lancerbye View Post
That is the reasons for the regulator. It provides a low constant pressure (0.5psi approx) from a higher pressure in the tank. The tank pressure changes with fill sources, temperature and amount in the tank. From the time you fill your tank and start using the propane the pressure starts to drop. Different countries have different gas mix as well as different regulations as to allowable fill amounts. If they will fill your tank (depends on whether or not they accept the type of tank you have)and so long as they stay below the pressure your tank is rated for the only thing you should have to worry about is tank adapters for fill up. However.....
Nope. Still don't see how that works. Different tank pressures happen with different temps (pv/t) & gas mixes, got that no problem. But I can't see how a 1/4 full tank can have a different pressure than a 3/4 full tank, all other variables being equal.
I always thought that in a fixed volume the pressure would increase until the propane stopped evaporating, no different if 10% full of liquid or 90% full?
Can someone back me up or prove me wrong, please?

ta
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Old 14-04-2011, 13:45   #33
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Re: International Gas Fittings

50 millibar, Euro standar from regulator is same as 0,072518869psi.

the pressure in the bottel can be much more. it even depends a lot of the temp outside and inside the bottel. warmer it is the more pressure you will have and the more gass you have.

P1 x V1 = P2 x V2

We did talk about pressure from regulators not the bottels. ?
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Old 14-04-2011, 14:12   #34
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Re: International Gas Fittings

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Originally Posted by careka View Post
50 millibar, Euro standar from regulator is same as 0,072518869psi.

the pressure in the bottel can be much more. it even depends a lot of the temp outside and inside the bottel. warmer it is the more pressure you will have and the more gass you have.

P1 x V1 = P2 x V2

We did talk about pressure from regulators not the bottels. ?
I thought we were talking about inside the bottles

My belief is that for a given gas mix & temp, the pressure inside will be the same if a bottle is full or nearly empty, others seem not to be so sure.

WIthout spending too much time on google I'm pretty sure the euro reg is now 30mB for propane or butane though 38mB may be allowed in certain circumstances.
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Old 14-04-2011, 14:17   #35
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Re: International Gas Fittings

The quoted MB is the regulator delivery pressure not the contents pressure.

The contest are quoted by weight as the contents are both liquid and gaseous
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Old 14-04-2011, 14:26   #36
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Re: International Gas Fittings

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Originally Posted by careka View Post
50 millibar, Euro standar from regulator is same as 0,072518869psi.

the pressure in the bottel can be much more. it even depends a lot of the temp outside and inside the bottel. warmer it is the more pressure you will have and the more gass you have.

P1 x V1 = P2 x V2

We did talk about pressure from regulators not the bottels. ?
Sorry but your decimal is one too far to the left, should be 0.725psi
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Old 14-04-2011, 19:51   #37
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Re: International Gas Fittings

Yeah, Cona is right... as long as there's some liquid gas left the pressure is the same (surface tension)

At 100 deg F (= 37.8 deg C) liquid propane is 177 psi. Propane - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

ciao!
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Old 14-04-2011, 20:11   #38
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Re: International Gas Fittings

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Yeah, Cona is right... as long as there's some liquid gas left the pressure is the same (surface tension)

At 100 deg F (= 37.8 deg C) liquid propane is 177 psi. Propane - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

ciao!
Nick.
Dependent on the temperature. There will be gas left in the tank after all the liquid has been evaporated. At that time the pressure will start to decrease as the gas is used up. This is the only reason removable tank gauges work to show when you are almost out of propane. You also have safety valves on the tanks incase the temperature gets too high too fast causing a big increase in the pressure. So is the pressure in the tank constant? no.
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Old 14-04-2011, 20:39   #39
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Re: International Gas Fittings

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Originally Posted by Lancerbye View Post
Dependent on the temperature. [...]So is the pressure in the tank constant? no.
Your statement is correct but it was mentioned that pressure was dependant on how much gas was in the tank and that isn't correct as mentioned by Cona and me. As long as some liquid gas is present, the pressure is not dependant on the amount of gas in the tank.

ciao!
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Old 15-04-2011, 01:37   #40
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Re: International Gas Fittings

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Your statement is correct but it was mentioned that pressure was dependant on how much gas was in the tank and that isn't correct as mentioned by Cona and me. As long as some liquid gas is present, the pressure is not dependant on the amount of gas in the tank.

ciao!
Nick.
Found this here
So in Grenada, with the temp at around 80deg & pressure from memory at about 50psi, the gas there is more like 70% butane??

If you're interested in measuring things


Vapor Pressure (psig) Mixture Propane (C3H8)
(%) 100 70 50 30 0 Butane (C4H10)
(%) 0 30 50 70 100 Temperature
(oF) -44 0 0 0 0 0 -30 6.8 0 0 0 0 -20 11.5 4.7 0 0 0 -10 17.5 9 3.5 0 0 0 24.5 15 7.6 2.3 0 10 34 20.5 12.3 5.9 0 20 42 28 17.8 10.2 0 30 53 36.5 24.5 15.4 0 40 65 46 32.4 21.5 3.1 50 78 56 41 28.5 6.9 60 93 68 50 36.5 11.5 70 110 82 61 45 17 80 128 96 74 54 23 90 150 114 88 66 30 100 177 134 104 79 38 110 204 158 122 93 47
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Old 15-04-2011, 02:56   #41
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pirate Re: International Gas Fittings

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Originally Posted by Saucy Sailoress View Post
My god - I thought he was kinda making a mountain out of a molehill, but this seriously is gonna be a big problem... How we supposed to sail around the world if we run out of gas?
Invest in a 2 burner Paraffin stove for the 'awkward' areas...
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Old 15-04-2011, 04:27   #42
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Re: International Gas Fittings

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I'm getting confused now, isn't the 30mB after the regulator??
Can you get different pressures in the cylinders? Can't see how that works ignoring temperature and gas mix. The grp bottles i use now are 80psi with UK propane, they were about 50psi i think with grenada propane/butane mix, at least that's what the gauge between the bottle & reg says.
Yes this is the regulator pressure not the clyinder pressure, the EU has standardised on 30mb for both propane and butane, ( presviously propane was 50mb). Clyinder pressures vary all over the place.

What I meant by the regulator statement, is that if you use local bottles , othen you have to buy a local regulator to fit them, some are not suitable for direct high pressure hose connection ( Ireland and Portugal come to mind).


In practice Camping Gaz is really the only way
Dave
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Old 15-04-2011, 04:49   #43
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pirate Re: International Gas Fittings

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Yes this is the regulator pressure not the clyinder pressure, the EU has standardised on 30mb for both propane and butane, ( presviously propane was 50mb). Clyinder pressures vary all over the place.

What I meant by the regulator statement, is that if you use local bottles , othen you have to buy a local regulator to fit them, some are not suitable for direct high pressure hose connection ( Ireland and Portugal come to mind).


In practice Camping Gaz is really the only way
Dave
I agree... easily available which makes it my gaz of choice... got fed up of having to hunt for refills... only place in Majorca was Alcudia... which was the opposite side of the Island from Andratx... and a long way from Minorca....
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Old 15-04-2011, 05:30   #44
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Re: International Gas Fittings

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Originally Posted by conachair View Post
Found this here
So in Grenada, with the temp at around 80deg & pressure from memory at about 50psi, the gas there is more like 70% butane??
We have spent years in Grenada until hurricane Ivan wrecked it. I remember clearly how our propane bottles lasted way shorter than in other places.

Looking at those graphs I agree the mix must have been around 30% propane and 70% butane. At the time I thought it was 100% butane like Camping Gaz.

ciao!
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Old 15-04-2011, 07:21   #45
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Re: International Gas Fittings

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Yes this is the regulator pressure not the clyinder pressure, the EU has standardised on 30mb for both propane and butane, ( presviously propane was 50mb). Clyinder pressures vary all over the place.

What I meant by the regulator statement, is that if you use local bottles , othen you have to buy a local regulator to fit them, some are not suitable for direct high pressure hose connection ( Ireland and Portugal come to mind).


In practice Camping Gaz is really the only way
Dave


All the local regs I have connect straight to the bottle, calor (uk) , couple of different spanish & camping gaz, maybe a french one as well? . I gave up on camping gaz a while ago, might have been canaries or maybe cadiz, anyway getting a refill wasn't happening and I ended up with a selection of local bottles. Move islands in the canaries and the bottles would be different, though they might have sorted that out by now. But very happy now with grp US style propane bottles. You can see how much gas is left and decant propane or butane or a mix in there and forget about it for a while. And still have a camping gaz 907 so can fill up with that if it comes to it.
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