Insulation Around Fridge

[Morgan3820]

I contacted Nanopore a couple of months ago and they said that they do not do small orders for individuals? I would love to know if I hear that wrong as redoing my icebox is on my winter to do list. So far I have had no luck in finding a vender for custom VIPs. RRparts never returned my inquiries. I have been looking into making my own. I have all of the materials spec'd I just haven't figured out how to vacuum seal them.

I would also like to know if anyone has a good source for 1/4 inch pultruded fiberglass.

Thanks!

[Cptn Happy]

Several months ago I spoke with a gentleman at Nanopore who identified himself as the "sales manager". He said that they had a $1,000 minimum order requirement. He also said that they were the company that had been supplying glacier bay with their vip's. Cptn Happy

[senormechanico]

Maybe if we all get our designs finalized, we could make a group order?

[Roy M]

I'm back from a trip and assembling the outer skin of the box. I used the 1" styrofoam to create templates, then cut them out of 1/4" birch ply (for stiffness and protection of the core). I used my hot-melt glue gun to tack the pieces together, and will apply West System epoxy and 410 filler fillets to stabilize the assembly this morning. Then, I will remove the unit from the boat and continue the process in my shop, sealing all surfaces with epoxy, then cutting the outermost polyiso foam slabs and epoxying them in place, with small epoxy fillets at the corners to seal everything and reduce air pockets. Then, I will use the styrofoam pieces again to create the templates for the VIPs, make my final CAD drawings of these and send off to Nanopore for a price. They told me that there was a $1000 minimum order, and I'm willing to pay it to achieve the results I'm hoping for. The long term benefit of reduced compressor cycling, increased interior volume, and porkchops in Paradise is too compelling. However, if anyone is ready to add to the order within the next month, I'd be happy to add them.

In the meantime, I will use the styrofoam templates as spacers, cut the interior polyiso foam pieces and interior birch ply skin, and prepare the lid assembly. I'm using the RParts hatches, because I've built these things before and know that I will save money by simply buying them. The upper assembly, though, must have VIPs for the same reason as the box body does, reduced wall thickness. The RParts hatches (I have two of them already) are three inches thick in the frame, though the hatch itself is only two inches. I plan on adding an extra inch of Ensolite foam to the bottom of the hatch lids to make up for the missing thickness on the stock hatches. It will also allow me to set the hatch lids down on the floor when they are removed, without damaging the hatch.

Once the inner skin is constructed, I need to see if I can use stock coldplates or have some built just for the box. Then I'll add the necessary reinforcements and support studs to hold them in place. When this is all done, I'll form the shelf supports, remaining fillets and LED lamp supports, and the divider wall between the reefer and freezer. Lastly, before the VIPs arrive, I'll paint everything with LPU and prep for final assembly. I'll send pics as soon as I can, of each completed stage, which will, hopefully, provide me with the impetus to actually get something done. There's nothing like the fear of shame by the community to propell me out of inaction.

In the meantime, make your drawings of your desired VIPs and we'll see what kind of a price we can get, but it has to happen before the end of October. I need to get on with the rest of the galley rehab.

BTW, is dsanduril the same as the famous author of THERE AND BACK AGAIN? Jim and Rhea were my next door neighbors for many years. I miss him a lot.

[Dsanduril]

BTW, is dsanduril the same as the famous author of THERE AND BACK AGAIN? Jim and Rhea were my next door neighbors for many years. I miss him a lot.

Not quite. I am the oldest child thereof. Jim was the principal at my elementary school when I was a kid (before the sailing adventures started). The Turners have been friends of the family for a very long time. Mom and Dad still get out on the boat on occasion, but it's more me and mine now. Still, for having been in the family for 36 years she's going strong and a lot of fun to sail.

[senormechanico]

I've found a source which will actually SELL their stuff!
They responded to my email within a couple of hours by phone with lots of details.
They followed up by emailing some more information about which product to pick for the application. I'm going with Cryogel 10201.

Pacor Inc., Insulation Specialists

They were very helpful, and when I'm ready to order they will get my business.

[SabreKai]

Originally Posted by oldjags

I want somebody to try this stuff out and tell us how well it works.

Aerogel | Aerogel Insulation | Aerogel Price

The pix of the girl with her face up against the stuff with a blow-torch being applied to the other side is pretty impressive.

With that NASA connection, though, it's probably pretty expensive.

I just got off the phone with a sale rep at Thermablok and he will be sending me all the details via email. Here's some pricing info for the blanket

Bulk comes in a roll 10mm x 57"x140ft at a price of $2962.81 plus shipping, taxes etc.

You can order it by the square foot, at $5.99 per sqft.

Since Im in the process of gutting my boat back to bare steel I'm very much interested in this. As per the sales person, a double layer of 20mm has an approximate r value of 8. This is rough, GordMays numbers may be more accurate.

[Roy M]

Update on reefer/freezer project: I'm just completing the inner case and about to start the top. I've double checked the dimensions and feel pretty confident that all is working well. The divider wall between the freezer and reefer needs to go in first, though, and I have a question. I plan to use a piece of 1/4" baltic birch ply, epoxied, for attaching the cold plate to the divider wall, which will be made of polyurethane foam. Since the divider wall will be breached for the circulation fan of the spillover control, would a one inch thick poly piece be sufficient, or should it be two inches thick? Transfer of cold from the holdover plate (actually, the heat from the reefer side) is desired for the reefer to function, but is it too much with less insulation?

I have spoken with RParts regarding the vacuum insulated panels. They want me to send paper panel templates instead of the styrofoam templates. Cost will be about $40 per square foot. As soon as I finish the box and top, I will disassemble the insulation and make my patterns. I need to cut the hole for the reefer lines, LED power, thermostat controls, etc., then modify the template for the VIP that all this stuff passes through. I can't have holes in the VIP, but I can cut the corner off diagonally of one piece of the template to allow the passage.

The holdover plate will cost about $600 and looks like it will fit nicely, as well as be removable through the freezer lid opening, should that ever be necessary. I'm taking pics as I go, so have patience with me and I'll get them onto the web.

[senormechanico]

Roy,
It sounds like you're building one similar to what I constructed on my previous boat.
I used 2" with a door (wide enough for a vertical ice cube tray) hinged on the bottom in the middle of the partition.
Behind the door there was no insulation or partition, just the back side of the holding plate.
The door had a stop on the top so it would only open enough to drop in the ice cube tray.
There was a magnetic latch on top to secure it, and a short floor also attached to the door so the weight of the full tray tended to keep it shut in the vertical position (think loaded refrigerator dolly).
It worked great and we always had ice ready to go.
The fridge ran around 40 degrees (fan circulated with a mechanical thermostatic door) and the freezer between +2 to -6 f.

[Spyderron]

Kollmann Marine has a good info site including the thermo properties needed for the thickness of the spillover divider. Kollmann Marine.

[Roy M]

Thanks folks! The Kollmann site is a treasure trove. I'm fitting the top of the box and can now make an accurate measurement of the volume. Currently, the combined volume of the entire box is 6 1/2 cubic feet. This is making me think that I would be better off making the box a complete freezer with zero degree cold plate, and selecting an additional site for a good sized reefer, having its own 24 degree cold plate. The Bitzer compressor and related equipment is certainly sized for the upgrade, and it looks like a more efficient use of the amp-hours to go this route. Plus, I can carry more vanilla ice cream.

[Roy M]

Change in plans, sleeping on it helps sometimes. I am going to keep the existing box as my reefer and build a separate freezer. While figuring out alternate locations, I realized that the existing box is really easy to extract individual items, quickly, without having to excavate to a lower level. Makes heat gain and cold loss as minimal as possible. The freezer, on the other hand, is accessed far less often, has a smaller inventory that can be layered, and allows me to get on with the interior remodel and add the freezer at a later date, after clearing the shop of all the "furniture" that is sitting there waiting to be installed. Plus, I can start looking for, or designing, lift baskets for the freezer storage.

[chala]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

The unit is an Isotherm fridge, not the greatest insulation.

Before installing insulation on the exterior of the fridge it may be necessary to check that lines from the condenser are not installed in the wall of the fridge. It is common to find fridge with condenser lines installed just behind the external wall of the cabinet. The walls should feel warm to the touch when the compressor is operating. I would think that trapping that heat behind some insulation would be counter productive and even affect the proper running of the fridge. If I was sure that condensing would not be affected by external foam I would and have used 2-pack close cell expandable foam. That type of foam can be found sometime at fibreglass shop, swimming pool maker.Normally a fridge can resit the force of the foam expanding, panelling may require temporary bracing, openings for the foam to escape may reduce, prevent deformation.

[Richard Kollmann]

Roy, if you want the best reliable most efficient system with lowest daily energy usage consider the following:

Stay away from Blitzer compressor systems.

Install an air cooled system with largest evaporator and a 12/24 volt Danfoss BD50 compressor for your 6.5 cu ft refrigerator box.

For an excellent 3 cubic ft freezer buy a self contained portable Engel 45 Freezer/refrigerator/cooler.

[Sumner]

Originally Posted by Richard Kollmann

Roy, if you want the best reliable most efficient system with lowest daily energy usage consider the following:

Stay away from Blitzer compressor systems.

Install an air cooled system with largest evaporator and a 12/24 volt Danfoss BD50 compressor for your 6.5 cu ft refrigerator box.

For an excellent 3 cubic ft freezer buy a self contained portable Engel 45 Freezer/refrigerator/cooler.

From what I saw when I was looking for portables the Engle 45 is only about 1.6 cu. ft.. We have a 63 quart Edgestar (fridge or freezer) that has worked well in the MacGregor and I measured the inside volume and it is about 2.3 if I remember right.

The new fridge/freezer...



...that we made for the Endeavour is about 4 cu. ft total and the freezer/evaporator is about 1/2 cu. ft.. It seems to use way less than the portable that is comparable to the Engle and that is due ...



..to all of the additional insulation you can put in one if you make it yourself (3 inches in the top and 4 in the walls and 9 in part of the the bottom and 7 in the rest of the bottom). It is hardly ever on. I don't have hard figures yet but Ruth and I felt it was only on for less than 10 minutes per hour.



The 84 series Danfoss BD35 compressor/condenser which is rated for boxes up to about 7 cu. ft. is responsible also for the low 16 amp/hrs per day that I think it is using.

Roy the box is something like what you are/were thinking, but smaller. It is one continuous box under the top, but there is a smaller lid opening under the fold-up....


counter top on one side where we keep the items we need during the day. This part of the box is narrower also than the rest of the box.

Then where the old counter was there is an outside lid (the old counter top) with the 3 inch thick box lid under it. This is a larger opening than the other one and ...



... is where the freezer compartment is and where we store long range items in the cooler part. Next to the freezer the temps stay in the low 30's and are around 40 where the other opening is at the end of the box.

The only negative is that we can't keep the freezer colder than about 22 or we start freezing up the large section which I suppose we could do if we wanted to start with more items frozen. The freezer works well though for ....



...keeping meat frozen and that was what we want the most.

After using it for 2+ months we are extremely happy with it and more info is here....

Endeavour 37 Interion Mods Index

Good luck with your build,

Sum