Ice Box Conversion to Spill Over Fridge/Freezer

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by fallingeggs

Skip, thanks for that. Gives me lots to think about.

I have a multi tool that I could use to cut the box out. What's one more day of work? Little worried about working my way around the already installed SeaFrost holding plate, so let me look at that. I'm trying to keep the fridge size small because I don't know what insulation I have. If I re-do the whole thing, I'd go bigger if I can.

Do you have an evaporator plate with your DB50? If so, what size? What RMP do you run the DB50 at?

Will be cruising the Caribbean for a year or two, so it needs to work.

My evaporator is a box shape with door to make that the freezer box, mounted horizontally in the top of the fridge box, 15x6x11.5" The model is a Frigoboat Capri 50.

Works quite well as a freezer keeps the fridge section cold. The only problem I had with the setup was the fridge section would get too cold so put a piece of blueboard under the box to keep more of the cold in. Installed a small, thermostat controlled fan in the door of the box to keep the temp stable in the fridge section.

Based on my experience during a very hot summer in FL you will have no problem with an air cooled setup like this if you have good insulation.

It only took me an hour or so to cut out the old box so that won't add much to the project. Based on my experience trying to keep the old box it will be a LOT easier to start from scratch, insulate the inside of the hole then install a new liner to make the new box. This will of course require removal of the old holding plate but will save huge time and hassle not having to work around it. Also think it will work better in the long run to off the plates. To take advantage of the engine to get cool it would be better to install a bigger alternator which will help total charging which you will certainly want.

[Rowglide]

One last consideration (Did I miss it?) You will need a drain. This can be plumbed in many ways. just be sure to have a plan for it.
Rowglide

[tml]

If your box is going to be refrigerated consider a no drains approach. If you do get moisture / water it should be a modest amount; sponge it out. Since you won't be using blocks of ice that melt gallons on a continuous basis other than a defrost job how much water can there be?
Drains are a penetration of your insulation barrier and will be a warmer spot.If you don't need it why have it?
When we removed our poured insulation there were 2 drains per box. In every case around the drains we found wet insulation.
In the just finished box rebuild the bottom is 8" of Dow pink board with no drains. If later I decide a drain is required its won't take much time to drill a hole and put one in
Tom

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Rowglide

One last consideration (Did I miss it?) You will need a drain. This can be plumbed in many ways. just be sure to have a plan for it.
Rowglide

Ok just one question . Why will he need a drain ? To let all the cold out? ( cleanup is easy a sponge does wonders with water in the bottom of the fridge. )

[ayates]

Definitely a recommendation on the Stainless Lobster controller. Sweet little gadget, and great support from manufacturer. I love its intelligence and the graphing.

I also dropped one of these, Temp101A, Temperature Data Logger, in each of the fridge and freezer to get long term downloadable logging.


Allan.

[cal20dennis]

I installed a Frigoboat unit with the larger size freezer box/ evaporator with the outside the hull cooling (sorry! Forgot proper name.) chunk of metal. The transfer of heat into water is incredibly more efficient than with a radiator and fan. The coolant flows from compressor through the through- hull device with no secondary fans or seawater pumps required. Silent and saves at least 1-2 amps every hour!
We cruise in Mexico in 75-85 degree water and fridge and small freezer box are never challenged. My box is well insulated and small (4 cubic feet including the evaporator/ freezer compartment.) Because our lettuce was freezing with a proper thermostat setting for the freezer, I glued several thin pieces of styrofoam to the bottom of the freezer and now both compartments at perfect temperatures.
I recommend that you cut the countertop off and get proper access to you freezer box. I fiberglassed (West Marine epoxy) blue foam and then you can saw it like plywood (after making template) and build your box liner, already fiberglassed! A new countertop can be built and installed that will match or beautifully contrast with your existing top.
But, that being said...We installed a small portable refrigerator (chest type)in our day sail, coastal cruiser sailboat for $700 and are incredibly happy!
Good luck with your project.

[Dougtiff]

Check out <rparts.com>, they have hatch's with vacuum panel, the hatch has a double seal and is a drop in, in fact you will probably need to enlarge the opening if you use their hatch, which will allow you to do the insulation, look at their vacuum panels to increase your R factor, you can install inside the box, a note about the freezer size, i cubit foot, that's just about useless, i would rethink it. I have aBD 50 compressor powering 4 cu ft. of freezer, spilling over to a 8 cu ft. fridge, the freezer holds at 10 neg. in 80 deg. temp. and is water cooled, but i believe air cooled will suffice, given enough room to move air.

[fallingeggs]

Originally Posted by Rowglide

One last consideration (Did I miss it?) You will need a drain. This can be plumbed in many ways. just be sure to have a plan for it.
Rowglide

Originally Posted by tml

If your box is going to be refrigerated consider a no drains approach. If you do get moisture / water it should be a modest amount; sponge it out. Since you won't be using blocks of ice that melt gallons on a continuous basis other than a defrost job how much water can there be?
Drains are a penetration of your insulation barrier and will be a warmer spot.If you don't need it why have it?
When we removed our poured insulation there were 2 drains per box. In every case around the drains we found wet insulation.
In the just finished box rebuild the bottom is 8" of Dow pink board with no drains. If later I decide a drain is required its won't take much time to drill a hole and put one in
Tom

Originally Posted by newhaul

Ok just one question . Why will he need a drain ? To let all the cold out? ( cleanup is easy a sponge does wonders with water in the bottom of the fridge. )

I think I'm sold on the no drain approach. Thanks for reminding me about it, though.

[fallingeggs]

Originally Posted by skipmac

My evaporator is a box shape with door to make that the freezer box, mounted horizontally in the top of the fridge box, 15x6x11.5" The model is a Frigoboat Capri 50.

Works quite well as a freezer keeps the fridge section cold. The only problem I had with the setup was the fridge section would get too cold so put a piece of blueboard under the box to keep more of the cold in. Installed a small, thermostat controlled fan in the door of the box to keep the temp stable in the fridge section.

I like the idea of a box evaporator plate making up a freezer space within the fridge. Seems KISS. But that would require completely removing the SeaFrost. Hmm.

Originally Posted by skipmac

It only took me an hour or so to cut out the old box so that won't add much to the project. Based on my experience trying to keep the old box it will be a LOT easier to start from scratch, insulate the inside of the hole then install a new liner to make the new box. This will of course require removal of the old holding plate but will save huge time and hassle not having to work around it. Also think it will work better in the long run to off the plates. To take advantage of the engine to get cool it would be better to install a bigger alternator which will help total charging which you will certainly want.

I am being sold on removing the original liner and insulation in order to start fresh.

[fallingeggs]

Originally Posted by ayates

Definitely a recommendation on the Stainless Lobster controller. Sweet little gadget, and great support from manufacturer. I love its intelligence and the graphing.

I also dropped one of these, Temp101A, Temperature Data Logger, in each of the fridge and freezer to get long term downloadable logging.


Allan.

Good to hear.

[fallingeggs]

Originally Posted by Dougtiff

Check out <rparts.com>, they have hatch's with vacuum panel, the hatch has a double seal and is a drop in, in fact you will probably need to enlarge the opening if you use their hatch, which will allow you to do the insulation, look at their vacuum panels to increase your R factor, you can install inside the box, a note about the freezer size, i cubit foot, that's just about useless, i would rethink it. I have aBD 50 compressor powering 4 cu ft. of freezer, spilling over to a 8 cu ft. fridge, the freezer holds at 10 neg. in 80 deg. temp. and is water cooled, but i believe air cooled will suffice, given enough room to move air.

Those do look pretty cool. I'm just not interested in expanding the carpentry work. I need to get cruising!

[fallingeggs]

[QUOTE=tml;2472012]I would take your current holding plate out and get one ( or two ) with dual circuits. One circuit for your existing engine drive and one for a dc driven Danfoss 35 or 50 from Seafrost or who ever. Probably won't cost much more than the Vitrifigo set up you are considering. The DC units are easily driven by a modest solar bank and every time you have the engine on you are making additional cold with the engine drive. In BTU terms every hour of engine drive equals aproximately 15 hours of Danfoss time so you can make up a lot of ground when the engine is running./QUOTE]

Thanks for sharing your experience. I considered doing just this. The price of the dual circuit (for lack of a better term) holding plate alone is more expensive than my entire proposed system (Danfoss, evaporator plate and thermostat). Just not for me at this point in time; however, it is interesting!

IF I were going to spend another $1k, I would probably take out the SeaFrost completely and install a big alt off the side of the engine. Or it would go to a radar.

[Maka]

please keep us posted. I need to do the same eventually.

[fallingeggs]

Originally Posted by Maka

please keep us posted. I need to do the same eventually.

Will do!

[fallingeggs]

Back at the boat! Will start ripping out the old ice box tomorrow.

Here are some pictures of the current SeaFrost install. Does anyone know what I am looking at and how best to disconnect the holding plate without spilling the refrigerant?

Here is the sea water cooling, compressor and unknown thing 1 (the blue thing):

Attachment 157660

One of the insulated lines from the compressor then goes to unknown thing 2:

Attachment 157661

The insulated line then goes to unknown thing 3:

Attachment 157662

Which is attached, in two places, to the holding plate:

Attachment 157663

Unknown thing 1 is attached to the sea water cooling on one end and unknown thing 2 on the other.

If I were a betting man, I'd guess I need to disconnect the holding plate from unknown thing 3. But at the connection on the holding plate or unknown thing 3? The connectors on the holding plate are plastic whole the rest of the system is bronze/brass.