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Old 25-11-2011, 11:52   #76
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Re: I Cured the Smell from My Head

My concern would be that human "Liquid" waste has ammonia in it and if the holding tank has this liquid waste material in it and one adds bleach containing chlorine to the holding tank. It will create chlorine gas. I for one do not want chlorine gas floating around inside my boat. I would also pray that any neighbor doing this will be well downwind from me.

I have a dog and once when she was a pup she left a puddle in the floor. Thinking I'll kill the germs real fast I dumped some bleach on it and started to mop it up. I quickly noticed the cloud of gas coming from it and started opening windows. Point is. Any dog owner in here should be able to confirm what I just said.

Please don't add chlorine bleach to a system with liquid waste in the holding tank.
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Old 25-11-2011, 12:03   #77
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Re: I Cured the Smell from My Head

Neither bleach, nor any products that contain bleach or chlorine should never be used in a marine toilet nor in the holding tank...not only because it can create gasses that are even more lethal than the hydrogen sulfide and sulfur dioxide generated in an anaerobic system, but because bleach/chlorine is both corrosive and highly destructive to rubber and also breaks down hose resistance to odor permeation.

Other no-nos are household chemical toilet bowl cleaners, pine oil cleaners, any petroleum based products and most other household chemical cleaning products.

Btw, vinegar and bleach is another lethal combination...that one creates chlorine gas, even more toxic than the ammonium chloride gas created by combining bleach and ammonia.
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Old 25-11-2011, 12:32   #78
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Re: I Cured the Smell from My Head

I can say this , After reading Peggys book I installed large vents and now use odorus , No smell no cloged vent filters no $90 charcoal filters It may not work for you and I had my doubts but..it works for me
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Old 25-11-2011, 19:07   #79
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Larger vents cured the odor? I doubt it. There is a reason that all homes here in the USA has a vent from the toilet on the roof somewhere. The gases from sewerage are lighter than air in the main and rise away. On a boat it difficult and ugly to have such a vent. Chemicals will surely help of the tank is not fouled above the water line when the chemical is added. I only pee in mine so the inside of the tank is fouled by previous use, I think I have a cure. The lady of the toilet is here trying to make money out of a book which in most cases advises to spend money which is what the previous poster has.
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Old 25-11-2011, 20:56   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bazzer
The lady of the toilet is here trying to make money out of a book which in most cases advises to spend money which is what the previous poster has.
That is really a rude and unfounded comment. Peggy has given tons of free advise to me and other members that has been very useful.

It borders on slander and the moderators should ban you because you are making statements that have no basis in fact

If you have nothing better to do than bash people who give great free advice - you need to find other hobbies.
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Old 25-11-2011, 21:02   #81
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Re: I Cured the Smell from My Head

How about if everyone takes a DEEP BREATH and re-reads that golden rule policy before posting again?

Please?
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Old 25-11-2011, 21:41   #82
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Re: I Cured the Smell from My Head

Bazzer m'dear...my publisher only pays me a $2 royalty for every copy of my book sold, which hardly makes it a profitable reason to spend time here. It's obvious that you've never read it either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bazzer View Post
Larger vents cured the odor?
Believe it, 'cuz it's simple bio-physics 101, which any high school biology or chemistry teacher can confirm: When organic matter breaks down aerobically (oxygenated), it converts to CO2, which is odorless. But when it breaks down ANAEROBICALLY (without oxygen) it generates sulfur dioxide and hydrogen sulfide, which stink, and methane, which is odorless but flammable. That's why compost piles must be tossed and aerated or it'll compact and rot,..and stink. And...why running water in streams doesn't stink, but stagnant swamps do.
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Chemicals will surely help of the tank is not fouled above the water line when the chemical is added. I only pee in mine so the inside of the tank is fouled by previous use,...
Nope,... chemicals aren't the answer (and urine stinks just as much as solid waste), OXYGEN is. In fact, aerating tank contents can totally eliminate odor out the vent without the need to use ANY product in the tank because it creates an environment in which odor cannot be created. However, except in very large or deep tanks, or tanks in locations that require long and/or convoluted or vertical vent lines, aeration isn't necessary...short, larger vent lines usually do the job.
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There is a reason that all homes here in the USA has a vent from the toilet on the roof somewhere.
Yep, but it's not the reason you stated...and it's not only the toilet that has to be vented, it's the plumbing--for the same reason that all the tanks on a boat--water, fuel AND waste--have to be vented: to provide both a source and an escape for air in the plumbing, without which no water could flow. And sewer gasses are actually heavier than air.

Now...if you can figure out how I can make any money from your doing anything I've suggested here, I'd really appreciate your sharing that information with me...'cuz $2/copy book royalty has not proven to be a very successful get-rich scheme so far.
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Old 25-11-2011, 22:06   #83
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Re: I Cured the Smell from My Head

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailagain View Post
That is really a rude and unfounded comment. Peggy has given tons of free advise to me and other members that has been very useful.

It borders on slander and the moderators should ban you because you are making statements that have no basis in fact

If you have nothing better to do than bash people who give great free advice - you need to find other hobbies.
Bazzer , Bazzer take a long deep breath and think about it.

Peggy's free and expert advise is appreciated by most users of this site.

Thanks Peg
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Old 26-11-2011, 00:10   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by downunder

Bazzer , Bazzer take a long deep breath and think about it.

Peggy's free and expert advise is appreciated by most users of this site.

Thanks Peg
+1. Some people just like to stir the pot for reasons I don't understand. The head mistress does a lot for this community and those of us who choose not to stink! SC
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Old 26-11-2011, 06:36   #85
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When we say larger vent how much larger is suggested. Guessing I have a 1/2" vent on a 25 gallon tank.
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Old 26-11-2011, 08:46   #86
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Re: I Cured the Smell from My Head

5/8" is the standard size for all tank vents...fuel, water AND waste. Someone decided eons ago that it was the right size for fuel and water, so the industry--not realizing that water and waste only need to be held, but waste also has to be managed--applied that "standard" to waste tanks too....along a few other ideas about vent lines that work for fuel and water, but actually cause problems for waste systems.

IMO 1" is the minimum ID for a waste tank vent line...1.5" is even better, but may be cosmetically too large a hole in smaller boat. The ideal vent line should also be short--5' max, <3' is optimal, straight as an arrow, and rise no more than 45 degrees. All of which I fully understand can be highly problematic to achieve on many sailboats--and builders make it even more problematic by installing waste tanks in the worst possible locations, but there are work-arounds that can help a lot.
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Old 26-11-2011, 09:27   #87
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Re: I Cured the Smell from My Head

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddy's Dream View Post
My concern would be that human "Liquid" waste has ammonia in it and if the holding tank has this liquid waste material in it and one adds bleach containing chlorine to the holding tank. It will create chlorine gas. I for one do not want chlorine gas floating around inside my boat.
The gas that is generated is chloramine and is the primary water disinfectant in most US cities (chlorine is being phased out). It is water soluable and would not be released from the tank in important amounts unless the tank was quite acid (Peggy covered this with her vinegar/bleach statement).

That said, if you mix bleach and ammonia (much more concentrated) it is quite dangerous. Clearly, playing mix-n-match with cleaning tips is not wise!

And as many have explained, bleach will do more harm than good to the equipment.

___________

Does poop always stink? Compost doesn't stink. Practical Sailor ran a series of tests over the past 10 months, using identical holding tanks side-by-side. Filters, chemicals, bubblers, and oversize vents all had their day in the sun. Oversize vents repeatedly performed very well and were certainly the simplest solution. There were other solutions that did well also, though to no ones great surprise traditional "blue" chemicals" and small vents were quite foul. In some cases, lethal (not bad smelling levels--drop dead right now levels) amounts of H2S were generated. I think it will publish this winter.
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Old 26-11-2011, 17:48   #88
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I would publicly like to apologize to the poster Peggy for my previous remarks.. I understand that my banter is not always appreciated by all.
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Old 26-11-2011, 18:02   #89
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Re: I Cured the Smell from My Head

Bazzer wrote: "There is a reason that all homes here in the USA has a vent from the toilet on the roof somewhere. The gases from sewerage are lighter than air in the main and rise away..."

Wrong! Any plumber will tell you the reason for the vent on the roof is to prevent a vacuum so the sewage can travel down to the sewer pipe when the toilet is flushed. All drains are vented. Maybe you are wrong on other issues.... just sayin'.
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Old 26-11-2011, 18:16   #90
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Bazzer wrote: "There is a reason that all homes here in the USA has a vent from the toilet on the roof somewhere. The gases from sewerage are lighter than air in the main and rise away..."

Wrong! Any plumber will tell you the reason for the vent on the roof is to prevent a vacuum so the sewage can travel down to the sewer pipe when the toilet is flushed. All drains are vented. Maybe you are wrong on other issues.... just sayin'.
Your right of course, air is needed in the system for more than one reason, on a boat it is a vent and needed to prevent both pressure build up and to prevent a partial vacuum that could collapse the tank when being pumped out. My problem is due to the sludge build up on the walls of the tank. I've just got to figure out how to clean it
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