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Old 07-09-2011, 20:00   #1
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How to Make My Head Legal ?

Just took delivery of a 1977 Moody 42 with two heads. Aft head has a holding tank, but forward head is direct discharge and the seacok is forzen in the open position. Not planing a haul out until next year. The seacock is in good condtion except I can't budge it. It does not have any way to lubricate or loosen the internals. Is there any method to make this legal until I can haul the boat and service the seacock?
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Old 07-09-2011, 20:03   #2
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Re: Hiow to make my head legal

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Originally Posted by Sailorman375 View Post
Just took delivery of a 1977 Moody 42 with two heads. Aft head has a holding tank, but forward head is direct discharge and the seacok is forzen in the open position. Not planing a haul out until next year. The seacock is in good condtion except I can't budge it. It does not have any way to lubricate or loosen the internals. Is there any method to make this legal until I can haul the boat and service the seacock?

I *think* you could put a lock on the door and just use the other head.
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Old 07-09-2011, 20:38   #3
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Re: Hiow to make my head legal

Replace the valve --

Have diver block thru-hull or let water come into the boat. Get all needed tools ready, and prep new valve. Make sure thru-hull nut is tight. Pull hose. Unscrew old valve. Use hand pressure to stop water flow. Screw open new valve onto thru-hull. Close valve. Reconnect hose. Unblock thru-hull. Tie-wrap valve closed. Done.

Possible problems --

Thru-hull begins to turn with removing or installing the value. Stop turning thru-hull. Tighten thru-hull nut.

Cross threading new valve on thru-hull. Don't. Turn valve ccw to seat valve against thru-hull then carefully screw on valve.

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Old 07-09-2011, 21:26   #4
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Re: Hiow to make my head legal

Replacing a Seacock in the water is not too difficult. Dive under the boat with a rag, a wooden plug, and a hammer. Place rag around plug and then pound into thru hull fitting. RAg acts like a sealant for short term. Remove seacock and service or replace. Best to have a new one ready to go. See above for potential problems.
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Old 07-09-2011, 21:34   #5
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Re: Hiow to make my head legal

Alternate option. Install a temporary holding tank.

Cut the discharge hose from the head and install a Y-valve. Input from the head, output 1 to the seacock, output 2 to a bladder holding tank.

Lock the Y-valve to feed only to the bladder. You're legal.

If you actually use that head you will need to set up some way to empty the bladder.
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Old 07-09-2011, 21:45   #6
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Re: Hiow to make my head legal

I liked everything you recommended except the bladder tank. Bladders are fine for water and ok for fuel, but not a good choice for waste holding. Among other reasons, they only have about a 15 yr lifespan. The recommend material is rotomolded PE, min wall thickness of 3/8". A good quality PE tank will last as long the boat.

Ronco Plastics Ronco Plastics (no relation to the VegoMatic Ronco) is the best source for water and waste tanks...they make TOP quality tanks for a very reasonable price (considerably less than a comparable size bladder...and have more than 400 shapes/sizes, over 100 of which are non-rectangular. And they install fittings in the sizes and locations specified by the customer when they make the tank. Great people to works with!
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Old 07-09-2011, 21:48   #7
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Re: Hiow to make my head legal

Put a bung in outside of the outlet so water does not rush in. Pull the hose and put a ball valve inline before the seacock. Put a lock on the ball valve with the handle in the closed position. Anyone who boards you to inspect will find this acceptable.
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Old 08-09-2011, 06:12   #8
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Re: Hiow to make my head legal

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I liked everything you recommended except the bladder tank. Bladders are fine for water and ok for fuel, but not a good choice for waste holding. Among other reasons, they only have about a 15 yr lifespan. The recommend material is rotomolded PE, min wall thickness of 3/8". A good quality PE tank will last as long the boat.

Ronco Plastics Ronco Plastics (no relation to the VegoMatic Ronco) is the best source for water and waste tanks...they make TOP quality tanks for a very reasonable price (considerably less than a comparable size bladder...and have more than 400 shapes/sizes, over 100 of which are non-rectangular. And they install fittings in the sizes and locations specified by the customer when they make the tank. Great people to works with!
Hi Peg,

Of course you are correct on the bladders. Just pulled the old ones out of my boat and am replacing with PE tanks. The bladder suggestion was strictly for a cheap, temporary fix if the OP needed a quick and dirty solution. Guess cheap might not apply if a bladder costs more than a PE tank but depending on the boat it might be quicker (and dirtier ).

I found a company in South FL, Duraweld that will make a custom tank to my specs to fit a smallish locker. Not just custom fittings but will make any shape or size you specify. This will let me maximize the capacity of the space I have to install the tank. Have any experience with them?

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Old 08-09-2011, 06:37   #9
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Re: Hiow to make my head legal

Personally, I wouldn't want to go that long with a non-working through hull, but another option is simply to disconnect the head, run the existing hose, or a new one above water line and plug it with a plug or valve and use your second head.

The other option, I've already seen mentioned - add a holding tank. I like the gravity feed systems.
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Old 08-09-2011, 06:54   #10
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Re: Hiow to make my head legal

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Personally, I wouldn't want to go that long with a non-working through hull.

Very good point.
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Old 08-09-2011, 18:10   #11
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Re: Hiow to make my head legal

Apparently you have't price bladders lately...they're NOT a cheap temp fix...they cost more than good quality rigid tanks!

I found a company in South FL, Duraweld that will make a custom tank to my specs to fit a smallish locker. Not just custom fittings but will make any shape or size you specify. This will let me maximize the capacity of the space I have to install the tank. Have any experience with them?

Yup. It's been a while--I sold my company in 1999, so things might have changed there since then--but in the '90s we sold quite a few Ronco tanks to replace failed OEM tanks they made.
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Old 08-09-2011, 18:19   #12
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Re: How to Make My Head Legal ?

Our boat a FIRST 42 was designed with bladders and still has them.. for the FIRST, it was a weight issue as the boat was designed for racing.. The bladders are easy to remove, clean, sanatize and reinstall.........
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Old 08-09-2011, 18:34   #13
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Re: Hiow to make my head legal

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Originally Posted by nautical62 View Post
Personally, I wouldn't want to go that long with a non-working through hull, but another option is simply to disconnect the head, run the existing hose, or a new one above water line and plug it with a plug or valve and use your second head. . .
Since it appears from your OP that you only want a temporary fix that you can work on later. The above should work fine.
- - Follow the hose from the seacock to where it attaches to the toilet. Make sure it is long enough so that the end will be above the hull's water line. Then disconnect it from the toilet and (assuming a 1.5" hose) insert a PVC 1" or 1.25" pipe cap into the hose end and install a hose clamp. If the existing hose is too short get a hose coupling fitting, hose clamps and attach a longer piece of hose to the original so that now the new end is above the water line.
- - Fix the hose so that the plugged end is above the hull's water line. Then unbolt and remove the toilet. Store it somewhere until you can get the new holding tank installed and the stuck seacock fixed or replaced.
- - You are now legal for that head space since there is NO MSD installed there.
- - -
What type and size seacock is the stuck one? Any photo of it available?
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Old 08-09-2011, 19:13   #14
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Re: How to Make My Head Legal ?

Sailorman, the simplest solution is to simply lock the head door. Yes, the USCG recognizes "it is behind a locked door" as meaning it is secured and cannot be used.

You could also take some bailing wire, secure the toilet lid down with multiple crosses of wire, and twist up the ends. Yes, that is "secure".

Think of it this way: If you were a warped prankster who'd just fed his shipmates an exlax brownie and wanted to make sure they had a fit trying to use the head, how would you "secure" it from use?

Right, anything that completes that picture is sufficient.<G>

Of course if the toilet is passably clean and dry, you could stick a plug IN the toilet itself, i.e. take a couple of toiler bowl gaskets, the beeswax rings, warm 'em up, shove the ball of wax in the bowl. Easily removed at a later date but "secure".

And having said that, I'd still vote with the folks who say you REALLY want to fix that seacock. If you can get a block of dry ice, try this one: pack the seacock with a slush of dry ice chips and alcohol. The alcohol ensures the cold is conducted to the metal parts. Wrap it all up, let it cold soak. Unwrap and try to move. If it won't move, heat it up as much as you feel comfortable with (even if that's just using a heat lamp) and then cold soak it again.

A couple of cold soak cycles often free things up as well as a torch would, without heat damage. And dry ice shouldn't be able to make any metals brittle, no fear.
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Old 08-09-2011, 20:17   #15
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Re: How to Make My Head Legal ?

33 CFR 159.7 (please google it...the url is a block long!) lists all the acceptable means of "securing" a system....you might want to read 'em, 'cuz although any Coastie with an IQ above room temp would prob'ly accept a locked door, that's actually legal only to secure a system connected to a Type I or II treatment device.

The simplest solution for this system is a wire tied seacock.
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