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Old 14-04-2012, 09:24   #1
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Holding tanks

I am looking at a 1959 yacht that has a direct discharge head. Sailing around the world will this be a problem? How difficult is it to fit a holding tank into a yacht? I realize all yachts are different but has anyone attempted this? How big a holding tank would be required? Thanks Tony
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Old 14-04-2012, 09:34   #2
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Yes it will be a problem. Not that difficult but requires a good design to accomplish.
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Old 14-04-2012, 12:07   #3
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Re: Holding tanks

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Yes it will be a problem. Not that difficult but requires a good design to accomplish.
....or maybe not a problem. I added to holding tanks to my vessel that was built before holding tank requirements. In my aft cabin I installed a small ten gallon tank that caused me the loss of one locker space. Forward I removed a 70 gallon water tank and placed a thirty gallon holding tank here with a smaller water tank. We still carry 180 gallons of water, so it's bearable. Many have had success with the bladder tanks. I do have one bladder tank for water, but I'm hesitant to use a bladder for sewage.
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Old 14-04-2012, 13:23   #4
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Re: Holding tanks

Theres always a place!! Ya just have to look and ck to see if the fall is right and such, you can spend a few bucks and get a MSD system and cure most all your problems simplely Just a thought
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Old 14-04-2012, 13:59   #5
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Re: Holding tanks

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Many have had success with the bladder tanks. I do have one bladder tank for water, but I'm hesitant to use a bladder for sewage.
Many insurance companies will not insure a vessel with a bladder tank used in lieu of an approved holding tank. I believe it is also not complaint with ABYC standards. Emptying the holding tank using high powered pump-out would also likely collapse the bladder tank, regardless of how well vented it is.

Todd manufactures a huge array of sizes for holding tanks, so I'm sure you can find one to suit your needs. They're inexpensive and pretty easy to install. The only challenge is finding space for them.
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Old 14-04-2012, 14:55   #6
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Re: Holding tanks

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...................... Emptying the holding tank using high powered pump-out would also likely collapse the bladder tank, regardless of how well vented it is................................
My bladder tanks, for water, not sewage, are designed to collapse when emptied an are not designed with vents. My water tank does not supply much of it's volume to my pump if I "vent" it by not sealing the fill cap fully closed. I agree with the advantage of venting holding tanks to promote aerobic bacteria which reduces odors. My Todd holding tank is double vented for this purpose. By my knowledge, all bladder tanks are designed to collapse.
I should also clarify bobconnie's suggestion of installing a MSD. I'm sure the intended message is to install a Type I or type II MSD. The holding tank is a type III MSD. Technically the bucket is a MSD, but not approved!
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Old 14-04-2012, 16:59   #7
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Re: Holding tanks

Retrofitting a holding tank doesn't have to be all that difficult. Your best source for a tank is Ronco-Plastics Ronco Plastics Marine Catalog The make TOP quality thickwalled (at least 50% thicker than Todd or other "off the shelf" tanks) rotomolded tanks for a very reasonable price and have more than 400 shapes/sizes, over 100 of which are non-rectangular...and they install fittings in the sizes and locations specified by the customer when they make the tank, eliminating the need for any "fittings relocation kit."

As for size, that depends on a number of factors--boat size, typical number of people aboard...type of toilet. In fact, looking at your location, I'm wondering if you've found a nice size trailer boat...in which case, a self contained system may be your best choice. So what IS your boat?

But the tank is only part of it...there are hoses...maybe a new toilet too...what's its make/model/age?

There's been a lot discussion here about how to install tanks and update systems...you'll learn a lot if you spend a little time reading 'em. And I'll be glad to answer the questions you can't find answers to.

Re bladder tanks... Ed, I dunno where you got the idea that insurance companies won't insure a vessel with a bladder tank used in lieu of an approved holding tank. An "approved" holding tank is any VENTED device "designed to prevent the overboard discharge of treated or untreated sewage or any waste derived from sewage." Even a coffee can meets THAT criteria. However, although quite legal and compliant with ABYC standards, neither bladders nor ANY metal are RECOMMENDED for sewage holding.
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Old 14-04-2012, 17:11   #8
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Re: Holding tanks

Thank you for the info. The boat I'm hoping to buy is a 1959 41' and does not have a holding tank so was just figuring if it would be an issue as we are planning on a world cruise with it. Seems it is a minor issue fairly easily fixed. Something to check when I inspect it.
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Old 14-04-2012, 17:22   #9
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Re: Holding tanks

We don't have a holding tank, and most of my friends who do, don't use them. I suggest you buy a little portable toilet for use when the gestapo are sniffing around and install it somewere out of the way.
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Old 14-04-2012, 17:43   #10
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Re: Holding tanks

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I agree with the advantage of venting holding tanks to promote aerobic bacteria which reduces odors. My Todd holding tank is double vented for this purpose. By my knowledge, all bladder tanks are designed to collapse.
Bladder tanks have their intended purpose and provide a viable water storage solution in many ways a rigid tank cannot achieve in a practical or cost effective manner. However, the purpose and scope of a holding tank is different from a potable water reservoir; and properly venting it serves multiple functions. The vents not only help maintain an aerobic environment, they facilitate the displacement of air when contents are added and vise versa. The port designated for the discharge of waste sits at the bottom, allowing the majority of the contents to be evacuated during the pump-out process.

Given what holding tanks require, the properties of a bladder tank fall short of it being practical for this purpose. I'm sure there are people out there that have been able to use bladder tanks successfully for this purpose. I have no doubt this is possible, as it is possible to sail a bathtub across the Pacific Ocean. But given the options available, I would best assume a bladder tank falls short of what is ideal.

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Re bladder tanks... Ed, I dunno where you got the idea that insurance companies won't insure a vessel with a bladder tank used in lieu of an approved holding tank. An "approved" holding tank is any VENTED device "designed to prevent the overboard discharge of treated or untreated sewage or any waste derived from sewage." Even a coffee can meets THAT criteria. However, although quite legal and compliant with ABYC standards, neither bladders nor ANY metal are RECOMMENDED for sewage holding.
Many insurance companies (mine included) are VERY picky about potential problems associated with improperly designed waste management systems. Hagerty Insurance denied coverage to an acquaintance who owns a 38 foot Chris Craft Constellation because his holding tank was not ABYC compliant. He inserted a bladder into a fiberglass tank that was previously breached. It was vented as well, but posed various concerns regarding the proper containment of waste.

Please place yourself in the shoes of the insurance underwriter. Would you stand confidently behind a policy you have underwritten for a boat that has a waste containment system susceptible to compromises in its ability to properly contain waste?
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Old 14-04-2012, 17:46   #11
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Originally Posted by boden36
We don't have a holding tank, and most of my friends who do, don't use them. I suggest you buy a little portable toilet for use when the gestapo are sniffing around and install it somewere out of the way.
Regards,
Richard.
Hope you are not in my anchorage. It you start exceeding waste into the harbor while I'm swimming it's going to be an issue. Does your boat have a name?
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Old 14-04-2012, 17:54   #12
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Re: Holding tanks

The first step in this project is to buy Peggy Hall's book "Get Rid of Boat Odors". The second step is to read it. When I had my boat built I had them install a bladder for a holding tank. Didn't like it and later replaced it with a tank from Ronco. They didn't ship the Vegamatic I ordered with the tank. I wonder why?
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Old 14-04-2012, 18:01   #13
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The veginstic was only shipped top people that had no consideration for waste management. you put systems in that give you a opportunity to be considerate of the surroundings.thanks
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Old 14-04-2012, 20:24   #14
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Re: Holding tanks

We have a tiny 15 gallon collapsable, vented, approved bladder holding tank on the master head. There is also a lockable Y valve which pretty much stays locked in the tank position. The midship head is direct out and mostly locked shut too. These two are Vacuflush. The forward head is an AIRHEAD with a Norco solar vent powered vent fan. It uses no power and two of us can live on the Air Head for way longer than most holding tanks. You might consider leaving your existing head alone and adding a composting head if there is space.
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Old 14-04-2012, 20:53   #15
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Thumbs down Re: Holding tanks

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Hope you are not in my anchorage. It you start exceeding waste into the harbor while I'm swimming it's going to be an issue. Does your boat have a name?
WOW !!!
How the hell do you get from owning a portable toilet to dumping it in your precious anchorage. I've never read such an arrogant statement.
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