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Old 16-10-2016, 21:21   #1
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Help, Hot water, Water pump, Holding Tanks

Hi

Usually 2 or 4 people on board. Very occasionally we might have 8 for short runs.
Sailing cat with 600Ah of batteries and the best I have seen from the solar panels is 10Amps no generator

I'd like some advice / experiences before I do the changes to try to avoid problems that others may have had. - I'd appreciate any input otherwise I'm at the mercy of the salesman who don't really seem to know.

Water pump - fresh only

There are no electric water pumps, all manual except toilet macerators.

I'd like a variable speed pump for pressure on demand without an air tank. Needed for showers basins and kitchen.

  • Am I on the right track.
  • Are any brands better than others
Hot Water - fresh only

There is no hot water.

I'd like to have a hot water on demand type system. Preferably gas as I don't want to draw from the batteries or run the engines (outboards anyway).

  • Am I on the right track.
  • Where are these normally mounted
  • Can I run flexible hoses or do they have to be copper
  • Are any brands better than others
  • Can I use the same water pump or should it have its own
Holding tanks for 2 heads - will need 2 tanks

One has a bladder but it smells of the chemical used or of the material used so I wanted to exchange it for a ridged tank. The other has no tank and just pumps overboard.

I want to have a holding tank for each. One problem might be that the head without a tank doesn't have a good spot for it unless I can fit it about a 1m above the base of the head and that doesn't sound like a good idea , could work with some cleaver one way system and the pump may do this ? I'm confident that it has been done before ?
  • Am I on the right track.
  • Can they be mounted above the head
  • Are any brands better than others
Regards
Dave
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Old 16-10-2016, 21:42   #2
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Re: Help, Hot water, Water pump, Holding Tanks

Hi Dave_S,

We have a 6 gallon a minute Jabsco pump with a 2 gallon Groco expansion tank. You really need the expansion tank if you're going to run the water and definitely if you want to run a shower off of the lines. We have a small catamaran, and run two faucets, and a cockpit shower.

We also have an on-demand propane hot water heater, and it is TERRIFIC. It is the only ABYC approved on-demand propane system. It is the Showermate M-550 . L-O-V-E it.

Hope it helps!

R-
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Old 17-10-2016, 05:44   #3
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Re: Help, Hot water, Water pump, Holding Tanks

Thanks for the help.

The Hot water system looks like the one for me. They say the variable speed pumps are more efficient than the ones with air tanks, have you seen them ?
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Old 17-10-2016, 06:51   #4
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Re: Help, Hot water, Water pump, Holding Tanks

I will look at the heater mentioned. I had a rather loud, belt driven water pump, installed by a previous owner. I was almost glad when it failed, about 2008. The present pump has been there since.
Many boat owners complain about the short life of the domestic water pump.
At the risk of being corrected by others, the cause of these failures is frequent cycling of the pump. Asking a 6 GPM pump to pump 1 gpm is not likely to work well, or at least not for long.
In short, use a smaller pump. Size it for the number of fixtures you will have running at once, not for the number of fixtures you have connected. That REALLY is how pumping systems work, and how residential and commercial systems are designed. Will you actually shower, wash your hands, and wash dishes at the same time?
The variable speed pump can operate at the capacity required, so it wont die early if you put in a pump bigger than you actually use.
Try a small pump. Cheaper to buy, and if it doesnt work out, just save it for a spare.
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Old 17-10-2016, 09:42   #5
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Re: Help, Hot water, Water pump, Holding Tanks

You can avoid most pump issues by sizing for actual demands or a little less. Shower or faucets, etc. The less expensive ones are single speed with a pressure sensor working like a thermostat. That means that they run only when a faucet is actually open. Oversizing the pump means extra strain for no benefit.
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Old 17-10-2016, 11:46   #6
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Re: Help, Hot water, Water pump, Holding Tanks

One thing you don't mention is your water tank capacity. Converting to a pressure water system, especially with a shower and 'non sailing' guests can be an issue, a typical American teen girl can empty your tank with one shower and leave you with no water. Will you then need a watermaker?
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Old 17-10-2016, 12:07   #7
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Re: Help, Hot water, Water pump, Holding Tanks

I have a Shurflo on-demand 4.5 gpm water pump, no expansion tank. It's smooth and more than adequate for the galley and single shower. It's variable speed, so runs slowly when the water is at a trickle and faster as you open the tap farther. I think expansion tanks are a thing of the past given the new variable on-demand pumps. More plumbing, takes up more space, more equipment to fail.
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Old 17-10-2016, 17:35   #8
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Re: Help, Hot water, Water pump, Holding Tanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by roland stockham View Post
One thing you don't mention is your water tank capacity. Converting to a pressure water system, especially with a shower and 'non sailing' guests can be an issue, a typical American teen girl can empty your tank with one shower and leave you with no water. Will you then need a watermaker?
Ha, yes I know what you mean. "Princess" takes 45minute showers, she will be banned from showers on the boat. Good thing now is she wont use the hand pump so I didn't think I'd tell her when I fit the electric one.

I have 4 x 160lt tanks - only 2 installed. I have a small capacity watermaker (18lt/Hr) that will be removed when I get a larger capacity portable watermaker.
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Old 17-10-2016, 18:03   #9
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Re: Help, Hot water, Water pump, Holding Tanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suijin View Post
I have a Shurflo on-demand 4.5 gpm water pump, no expansion tank. It's smooth and more than adequate for the galley and single shower. It's variable speed, so runs slowly when the water is at a trickle and faster as you open the tap farther. I think expansion tanks are a thing of the past given the new variable on-demand pumps. More plumbing, takes up more space, more equipment to fail.
Is this the one. It is 4GPM, it does say that these are new models so they may have stopped the 4.5.

AQUA KING™ II Premium Fresh Water Pump 12 VDC 4.0 GPM | AQUA KING™ II Fresh Water Pumps
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Old 17-10-2016, 19:29   #10
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Re: Help, Hot water, Water pump, Holding Tanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Octopussy View Post
Hi Dave_S,

We have a 6 gallon a minute Jabsco pump with a 2 gallon Groco expansion tank. You really need the expansion tank if you're going to run the water and definitely if you want to run a shower off of the lines. We have a small catamaran, and run two faucets, and a cockpit shower.

We also have an on-demand propane hot water heater, and it is TERRIFIC. It is the only ABYC approved on-demand propane system. It is the Showermate M-550 . L-O-V-E it.

Hope it helps!

R-
Octopussy
S/V Octopussy
I have just winterized a system the same as this one and the owners swear by it. they have a 50 gallon reserve for drinking and shower water
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Old 17-10-2016, 20:03   #11
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Re: Help, Hot water, Water pump, Holding Tanks

Very pleased with my AquaKing 4.0 II. The new variable speed pumps are designed to run without an accumulator. Mine only surges when I have just a trickle of water when Rinsing dishes in port. Despite the Westmarine reviews, mine is VERY quiet. Maybe too quiet. ��

Tried a smaller pump and didn't care for it. thank goodness it died quickly.
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Old 17-10-2016, 21:46   #12
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Re: Help, Hot water, Water pump, Holding Tanks

Go with a smaller pump. A fixed speed one you can hear so if someone is taking a long shower or there is a leak you hear it. With the variable pumps, they are quiet. will drain your tank with out you knowing it. especially important with visitors not familiar with marine water usage.
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