Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 04-07-2011, 08:08   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Southern Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Norseman 430, Jabberwock
Posts: 691
Re: Head Puzzle

Quote:
Originally Posted by malbert73 View Post
This is exactly how my head is plumbed. During daily use we flush with sea water to conserve. Once a day at bedtime I close the seacock to the sink, fill the sink with fresh water and squirt in a small amount of raritan CP. Then flush it through.
We are on the 4th year with same hoses and manual PHII head, and not even a trace of odor...
Yes, all sorts of advantages to this setup.

Head still can be used when the boat is hauled (your discharge is directed to a holding tank, isn't it?).

It's easy to run antifreeze thru the entire system come cold weather.

And I know Peggie frowns on lubing the pump with vegetable oil, but that's how I do it. I have the Jabsco head, disassembled the pump once to lube it properly, and had a devil of a time stopping the leaks afterward. So for me, it's vegetable oil, down the sink.

Biggest problem is sometimes you need to put the stopper in the sink for the pump to draw well.
__________________

__________________
ggray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2011, 08:18   #17
Registered User
 
crashkahuna's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: So. Calif
Boat: Catalina 28
Posts: 124
Images: 20
Re: Head Puzzle

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepFrz View Post
I have heard of people using a t and valve from the bathroom sink. Run the sink full of water and then flush it through the toilet when you are done.
I set mine up same way as suggested by another forum member. Fresh water goes from sink so keeps system clean and goes thru the whole system (not just poured in bowl).
__________________

__________________
crashkahuna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2011, 08:21   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Anacortes, WA
Boat: Maine Cat 41
Posts: 325
Re: Head Puzzle

Quote:
Originally Posted by peghall View Post

Connecting any toilet designed to use sea water to the onboard pressurized water system is a very bad idea and EVERY toilet mfr specifically warns against doing so because because it cannot be done without risk of e-coli contamination of the fresh water system, damage to the toilet or both.

You say you'd install a "check valve"...that's not enough...you'd need a vacuum breaker and redundant one way valves. However, that would only solve half the problem. The other half: manual toilets are designed to PULL flush water through the pump. Pressurized water PUSHES water through the pump, which will mess up seal, valve and gasket alignment....creating more problems than it solves.


STOP! I think I'm missing something here. Don't most freshwater flush marine toilets plumb into the domestic water system (at least on the non pressurized side)? How does a pressurized system leave one susceptible to contamination but a non-pressurized system not leave one susceptible to contamination? I get the part about putting pressure to a pump designed for manual operation being bad. What do manufacturers do that enable their FW toilets to pull from my domestic tanks? or do they recommend a separate FW supply system/tank?
__________________
cchesley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2011, 09:24   #19
Registered User
 
svHyLyte's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tampa Bay area, USA
Boat: Beneteau First 42
Posts: 3,434
Images: 25
Re: Head Puzzle

Drawing from the sink drain will work but does require that one close the thru-hull. If fresh water only is a must, why not install a small "pony tank" to capture gray water from the sink that can be pulled into the head when necessary. The tank--maybe 2-3 gallons collects water from the sink and, when filled, overflows to a standard thru-hull discharge. A second "pick-up" line runs from the bottom of the pony-tank to the raw-water intake on the head. In the unlikely event the pony tank empties, one simply pumps water into the sink which runs through and refills the pony tank.

FWIW...
__________________
"It is not so much for its beauty that the Sea makes a claim upon men's hearts, as for that subtle something, that quality of air, that emanation from the waves, that so wonderfully renews a weary spirit."
svHyLyte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2011, 10:01   #20
Sponsoring Vendor
 
HopCar's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Miami Florida
Boat: Ellis Flybridge 28
Posts: 3,162
Re: Head Puzzle

HyLyte, I like the pony tank idea. My Mama told me to wash my hands after using the toilet. Following Mamas advice would help refill the pony tank and conserve fresh water.
__________________
Hopkins-Carter Marine Supplies & Fishing Tackle
What You Need, at the Price You Want...with Service!
HopCar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2011, 10:31   #21
Registered User
 
svHyLyte's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tampa Bay area, USA
Boat: Beneteau First 42
Posts: 3,434
Images: 25
Re: Head Puzzle

Quote:
Originally Posted by HopCar View Post
HyLyte, I like the pony tank idea. My Mama told me to wash my hands after using the toilet. Following Mamas advice would help refill the pony tank and conserve fresh water.
It will work but frankly, I don't see the logic for not simply using sea water followed up with a couple of cups of fresh to clear the lines once the bowl's been emptied. We've been doing that with our forward, manual, head for the last 10 years with good success. In our case, we add fresh water to the bowl and a squirt or two of a "SaltAway/Fresh Water" solution, push the flush lever to "Dry Bowl" and pump the bowl empty. This has kept our lines and valves clear and trouble free and we have no head odors on the boat at all.

FWIW...

PS: I'm very glad to see the Hopkins-Carter is still in business. That's a name I remember from my childhood. Does the place still have any smell if Pine-Pitch, Tar and old Hemp?
__________________
"It is not so much for its beauty that the Sea makes a claim upon men's hearts, as for that subtle something, that quality of air, that emanation from the waves, that so wonderfully renews a weary spirit."
svHyLyte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2011, 14:28   #22
Senior Cruiser
 
osirissail's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: A real life Zombie from FL
Boat: Gulfstar 53 - Osiris
Posts: 5,416
Images: 2
Re: Head Puzzle

In the "olden days" sea water flushed MSD's were the standard and flushed directly overboard, there was no "holding" of the discharge in a tank.
- - In today's world of Potty Police and a raft of other rules and laws about discharges, we are forced to retain and hold all the "black water" discharge in holding tanks.
- - So now if you are using "raw/sea water" to flush your MSD you are pumping a large quantity of marine organisms (little buggies), etc. into the mix inside that "holding tank." And it all sits there until you get around to visiting a pump out station.
- - So it will be interesting to see how in these days and future days the mix of hungry sea critters and your waste products react to each other - fermenting in the holding tanks, hoses, and valves.
__________________
osirissail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2011, 14:36   #23
Marine Service Provider
 
peghall's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,533
Re: Head Puzzle

Of course a separate flush water tank is a safe source of water for the toilet, but that's completely different from just tapping into the potable water plumbing, which is what the OP asked about doing. However, just teeing into a sink drain is a whole simpler way to do and allows you to have it both ways. However, that only works if the head and the sink are on the same side side of the keel....which may leave a separate tank as the only way to supply fresh water. In which case, the easiest way to do that is an UNvented bladder tank. Find a location that's convenient to both the toilet and the sink...tee the fill for the bladder into the sink drain (very handy li'l thing, that sink drain line!) using a y-valve, connect the toilet intake line to the bladder. No other plumbing needed, not even a vent. When the bladder needs filling, turn the y-valve in the sink drain line and run water down the sink.

Btw...today's marine toilets are a lot more efficient than they used to be, especially those that are still in service long after they've become so worn that rebuilding no longer does much to help 'em any more. Today's average manual OR electric toilet today only needs about 2 liters of water/flush unless the system is so badly designed that the tank is too far from the toilet. But that only underlines the beauty of letting the head sink drain and toilet intake share the same thru-hull...you really only need to use fresh water to rinse out the system, flush with sea water the rest of the time.
__________________
2017 Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "The NEW Get Rid of Boat Odors"
https://www.amazon.com/New-Get-Rid-B...dp/1892399784/
peghall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2011, 14:43   #24
Registered User
 
Aussiesuede's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC & Seattle, WA
Posts: 641
Re: Head Puzzle

Quote:
Originally Posted by osirissail View Post
- - you are pumping a large quantity of marine organisms (little buggies), etc. into the mix inside that "holding tank." And it all sits there until you get around to visiting a pump out station.
- - So it will be interesting to see how in these days and future days the mix of hungry sea critters and your waste products react to each other -
Suddenly I feel the urge to start looking before sitting just to make sure some scary mutated critters aren't starring up from within the depths of that dark hole.
__________________
I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. - (George Carlin)
Aussiesuede is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2011, 14:57   #25
Marine Service Provider
 
peghall's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,533
Re: Head Puzzle

...if you are using "raw/sea water" to flush your MSD you are pumping a large quantity of marine organisms (little buggies), etc. into the mix inside that "holding tank." And it all sits there until you get around to visiting a pump out station.
- - So it will be interesting to see how in these days and future days the mix of hungry sea critters and your waste products react to each other - fermenting in the holding tanks, hoses, and valves.

There's nothing new about holding tanks and potty police, at least not here in the US...the laws requiring vessels to either hold or treat have been on the books for over 30 years. No reports of any mutant ninja brine shrimp yet...
__________________
2017 Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "The NEW Get Rid of Boat Odors"
https://www.amazon.com/New-Get-Rid-B...dp/1892399784/
peghall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2011, 15:28   #26
Sponsoring Vendor
 
HopCar's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Miami Florida
Boat: Ellis Flybridge 28
Posts: 3,162
Re: Head Puzzle

HyLyte, thanks for remembering Hopkins-Carter! No the smell of our old building is long gone. That was what a chandlery should smell like. I've often thought that I should put some good smelly oakum in the air conditioner ducts. Sorry for going off topic.
__________________
Hopkins-Carter Marine Supplies & Fishing Tackle
What You Need, at the Price You Want...with Service!
HopCar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2011, 16:04   #27
Senior Cruiser
 
DeepFrz's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Boat: None at this time
Posts: 7,930
Re: Head Puzzle

Quote:
'Cuz if you don't have even that much power, you prob'ly won't have lights, nav equipment, communication, radar, autopilot or a whole BUNCH of stuff that makes the toilet the LAST thing on your mind...
I don't know Peggy, but that scenario would probably make the need for a working toilet even more urgent... ;o)
__________________
DeepFrz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2011, 17:49   #28
Marine Service Provider
 
peghall's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,533
Re: Head Puzzle

I'm more inclined to believe it would create a major pucker instead!
__________________
2017 Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "The NEW Get Rid of Boat Odors"
https://www.amazon.com/New-Get-Rid-B...dp/1892399784/
peghall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2011, 18:11   #29
Senior Cruiser
 
osirissail's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: A real life Zombie from FL
Boat: Gulfstar 53 - Osiris
Posts: 5,416
Images: 2
Re: Head Puzzle

Quote:
Originally Posted by peghall View Post
There's nothing new about holding tanks and potty police, at least not here in the US...the laws requiring vessels to either hold or treat have been on the books for over 30 years. No reports of any mutant ninja brine shrimp yet...
Very true, except for the last 27 years there has not been any serious enforcement of those old laws except for a few places in California and New England.
- - From other CF Threads on the subject there seems to be a fanatical effort by various political entities to increasingly blame cruisers for all the pollution pouring into the harbors and bays. They have gotten a bit over the top in "enforcing" the old laws as they apply to cruisers while ignoring the millions of gallons of pollution flowing from their own municipal plants.
- - So we are all paying more attention to our MSD's and holding tank and locked Y-valves and other related areas.
__________________
osirissail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2011, 21:07   #30
Marine Service Provider
 
peghall's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,533
Re: Head Puzzle

You've overlooked one of the "hotbeds" of "no discharge," the Florida Keys.

You'd be surprised at how much enforcement there's been for the last 20 years, especially on inland waters and the Great Lakes. There's actually enough enforcement that just about every boat has a holding tank now...but more of 'em are being illegally dumped than pumped. However, waste still has to be managed while it is in the tank...and so far, no one has been bitten on the arse by anything in the bowl.
__________________
2017 Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "The NEW Get Rid of Boat Odors"
https://www.amazon.com/New-Get-Rid-B...dp/1892399784/
peghall is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
head

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fuel Consumption Puzzle Bowman Sailor Engines and Propulsion Systems 29 29-04-2013 11:30
Sail Trim Puzzle Dockhead Seamanship & Boat Handling 27 17-05-2011 06:59
Calorifier Puzzle Dockhead Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 3 12-08-2010 18:42
Bullet 2HP Connection Puzzle bryan and wendy Marine Electronics 5 06-04-2010 12:58
pcs to a puzzle that works? terrydean Meets & Greets 14 27-01-2007 18:00



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 21:00.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.