HDPE countertops

[Cavalier]

So i'm about finished with rebuilding my galley.

I was originally thinking of buying a large sheet of white 1/2" corian, cutting and routing to fit, but then I thought about High Density Polyethylene.

I know how to glue the stuff, and it's very machineable.

Does anybody have any "cons" for why HDPE is a complete no-no?

[GILow]

Looks awfully heavy to me. 970kg per cubic meter according to Wikipedia.


Compared with some of the timbers, that's double the weight.

[HankOnthewater]

Using HDPE (high density poly ethylene)..... you will have in fact one large cutting board, and why not. However, after a while it will look like a cutting board. Even if you were not using it as a cutting board, the initial shine will soon disappear as the material is fairly soft/easy to scratch.
One other issue maybe, if you make the top a tight fit, be aware that an increased temperature will expand the material, and the top may become warped, and once warped, the buckling will never disappear. So make it on a very hot day and a reasonably tight fit, or have a gap of a few mm all around it.

One disadvantage of this material for use in galley: you cannot put a hot saucepan on it. It will melt the plastic. Melting point is between 120 and 180 degrees Celcius.

You mentioned glueing this HDPE. What do you use?

[toddster8]

I prefer to be able to set a hot pot any old place, without searching for a "safe" spot. When building from scratch, I usually just use cheap leftover floor tiles set in versa-bond.

[Cavalier]

Originally Posted by GILow

Looks awfully heavy to me. 970kg per cubic meter according to Wikipedia.





Compared with some of the timbers, that's double the weight.

I'd only be looking at using 2 lots 12mm x 600mm x 900mm = 2x6480000 mm^3, so 2x0.00648m^3 which is only 12.6 kg!

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[delmag]

i'd go with the corian or something similar for long term wear. i used hi-macs (made by lg) which is an acrylic product similar to corian. cost was about the same but the corian color options didin't suit my needs. i'm very happy with it after 9 years of full time liveaboard use. HDPE is pretty soft and i don't think you can polish out nicks and scratches like you can with the harder plastics. it would be a bummer to go through all the work of doing the countertops and then have to do it again later if you are not satisfied with the results. it seems to me that, if it was a suitable material, somebody would be using it commercially by now. it's not a new product.

[Cavalier]

Originally Posted by HankOnthewater

Using HDPE (high density poly ethylene)..... you will have in fact one large cutting board, and why not. However, after a while it will look like a cutting board. Even if you were not using it as a cutting board, the initial shine will soon disappear as the material is fairly soft/easy to scratch.

One other issue maybe, if you make the top a tight fit, be aware that an increased temperature will expand the material, and the top may become warped, and once warped, the buckling will never disappear. So make it on a very hot day and a reasonably tight fit, or have a gap of a few mm all around it.



One disadvantage of this material for use in galley: you cannot put a hot saucepan on it. It will melt the plastic. Melting point is between 120 and 180 degrees Celcius.



You mentioned glueing this HDPE. What do you use?

3M Scotch-Weld DP8005 - I've used it between PEHD1000 and scotchbrite parts before in a subsea application and it worked well.



I hear you about the hot pot problem, but at home we routinely pull pots off the stove and dump them on a PEHD cutting board we have to no obvious detrimental effect, I assumed it was because the pan base never actually manages a 100% contact and the heat dissipates quicker than the material heats up (in bulk). I should get a fresh and very flat sheet of PEHD again and do some more hot-pan tests.



For the thermal expansion, you're right - I plan to run a 1/4" expansion gap all around the outside and use caulk to fill the gap between the edge and the inside of the fiddles.



The surface softness will always be an issue, but I'd plan to use a cutting board anyway. I should be able to refinish the PE if necessary by sanding..

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[Cavalier]

Originally Posted by delmag

i'd go with the corian or something similar for long term wear. i used hi-macs (made by lg) which is an acrylic product similar to corian. cost was about the same but the corian color options didin't suit my needs. i'm very happy with it after 9 years of full time liveaboard use. HDPE is pretty soft and i don't think you can polish out nicks and scratches like you can with the harder plastics. it would be a bummer to go through all the work of doing the countertops and then have to do it again later if you are not satisfied with the results. it seems to me that, if it was a suitable material, somebody would be using it commercially by now. it's not a new product.

Thanks for the input. Does the HiMacs product have better heat tolerance than the basic Corian, in your experience? Working the solid surface products is a out the same as the PEHD (which is maybe easier), so the only difference would be the cost and harder wearing nature of the HiMacs.

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[Delancey]

Solid surface materials (Corian, Hi-Macs, etc.) have been around for thirty years. HDPE has been around for a lot longer. Most (99.9%) use solid surface materials for counter tops instead of HDPE even though it's been around a lot longer. Suggest you go with solid surface material. You won't regret it for all the reasons most people use it for counter tops instead of HDPE.

p.s. I have worked in the industry, Corian = Hi-Macs except Hi-Macs is usually cheaper.

[Cavalier]

Originally Posted by Delancey

Corian = Hi-Macs except Hi-Macs is usually cheaper.

Aha! The joy and learning that comes from an honest person.. Thank you.

Did LuckyGoldstar simply find a way of patenting a similar process after DuPont's original one ran out?

[delmag]

i don't know about the heat tolerance of himacs but i just treat it like plastic and don't put hot pots on it. the guy at the countertop place i bought the himacs from said that it was basically the same as corian. they use the same glue. most places won't sell corian due to requirements of the manufacturer that the material be installed by a certified technician. for me it was just a matter of color... i didn't like the shade of the corian as much. i don't recall the price difference being significant.

[James S]

I like that you're thinking outside the box..
I guess my concern would be the fuzzyness and softness.. also I built my sink and backsplash out of the same solid surface material as my countertop.
maybe your bonding method would enable this..
yours is an interesting thought though..

[leftbrainstuff]

Hdpe is too soft. Any cuts or nicks will trap dirt and be very difficult to clean. Plastic chopping boards are made from HDPE. They are the worst option in terms of food preparation cleanliness. You have to bleach them daily or replace them often. They are only popular because they are cheap and colorful.

HDPE is joined by welding, actually creep welding for structural joints, not glueing. It has a low melting point and is easily damaged by hot pans and the like. Totally unsuitable as a permanent countertop.

How about starboard which is a branded UHMWPE. If you must use polyethylene then you want UHMWPE. It's much harder and has a much smoother surface finish. It's workable with woodworking tools although you'll wear cutting edges down quickly.

A good countertop should be very difficult to cut and shape. Surface hardness is the property you want.

Laminate glued to chipboard is the land yacht solution to get high surface hardness and still be easily shaped. It's also the cheapest option for permanent food preparation surfaces.

[Stumble]

The biggest issue is the hdpe is not self supporting. Meaning it cannot span gaps more than just a few inches or it will start to droop, and over time will droop more and more. So you could use it as a surface laminate, but would need a plywood backer for structural support. An end grain wood cutting board trimmed to size can do both without needing any grid support.

[Typhoon]

I used Corian in my last boat , it was great stuff and very easy to work with. A private person can not buy this material in Ontario Canada, I had to find an installer to order it for me . I guess this is how they protect the trade . But really , try to find a counter-top installer that will work in a boat .

Regards John