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Old 31-03-2012, 11:11   #31
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Re: HATE Jabsco Manual Toilet - should we Convert to Electric?

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Originally Posted by capngeo View Post
...
One of the things I always do is install an electric pump to add water to the bowl with a switch. I've found that the additional water makes the manual head work much better. When I was a full-time liveaboard, I would get 2 years between overhauls. Another good thing is to always flush the head with fresh water if it is to be left unused for more than a day or two.
I have a salt water pressurized wash system - would it help in any way to provide some of that water to the bowl - at least some of the time?
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Old 31-03-2012, 13:15   #32
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Re: HATE Jabsco Manual Toilet - should we Convert to Electric?

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You'll hate the Jabsco electric conversion even more,' cuz it "chokes" on just about anything more than urine, makes enough noise to wake the dead, and draws a whopping 24 amps (compared to 16 for most other sea water electric toilets.

Jabsco's "quiet flush" toilets are a bit better, but nothing Jabsco makes any more is very durable...yet they cost as much or more than toilets that are...and NO sea water toilet is actually quiet because--contrary to what most people believe--it's not the dscharge pump and macerator that make all the noise, it's the INTAKE pump. Only toilets that are designed to use pressurized fresh water are actually quiet .So yes, I think that "upgrading" to any electric Jabsco would provide short term relief, but would be trading one set of problems for another in the long run.

If you were happy with Lavac before, I suggest you stick with manual toilets...and there is an affordable alternative: the Raritan PHII has been rated the best manual toilet for more than 20 years...with only minimal maintenance it'll last that long. It's now available in a "compact version"--the PHC, which uses the same pump, but on a compact base and with a shorter handle--and both are available as a "conversion" that allows you to re-use your existing bowl, seat and lid and cuts the price by nearly 50%. However, I would NOT ever "upgrade" a PHII to the electric PHE II...putting an electric motor on it turns an outstanding manual toilet into one of the poorest excuses for an electric toilet on the planet!

Check out the PH II/PHC here Raritan PH II Raritan PHC The cconversion for both is available from this retailer sbo.com PHII PHC LBA

But...don't even THINK of connecting this toilet--or any other sea water toilet--to your fresh water water plumbing....there's no way to do it with risk of e-coli contamination of your potable water, damage to the toilet pump or both...and EVERY toilet mfr specifically warns against it in their installation instructions.

Btw...just how much is the "relatively cheap" price you're been quoted to "upgrade" to a jabsco quiet flush? Which model?
This Jabsco quiet-flush claims to be use 10 amps. It is model 37245 and we could get it for $150 (not a huge savings from retail but we are not in the US right now).

And for the record, we've never had any type of clogging problems. Our problem is that water continually rises in the tank even in the locked position (it's a twist and lock model). We've replaced joker valves and the seal kits for the pumps but it never lasts long (< 1 year). We always spray the bowl with a water/vinegar/oil mix to keep it lubed (every other time it's used basically) and I frequently flush cupfuls of fresh water down it.

I'd love to buy lavac or other model but didn't want to invest 1200-1500$ for two. I do see that the Raritan PHC is only $300 (for the full unit) and that would maybe be the way to go, next time we are in the states we would have to look into it. We still may convert one of our current heads to the quiet flush at least it would eliminate the pump rebuilds. My husband listened to the quiet-flush on another boat and didn't think it was too loud.
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Old 01-04-2012, 09:27   #33
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Re: HATE Jabsco Manual Toilet - should we Convert to Electric ?

If the problem is with the toilet bowl filling with sea water, you need to put a vented loop in the water supply line between the pump and the bowl. Here is a discussion of the issue, scroll down to the paragraph titled "Vented Loop"
Installing a Head by Don Casey
If you don't already have one, you need a vented loop in the discharge line as well. You should never rely on the valves in a toilet that is mounted below the waterline. They will fail sometime. Peggy Hall addresses this in her book "Getting Rid of Boat Odors" as well.
It doesn't sound like you really need a new toilet, just a better installation. By the way, putting oil in a toilet just causes more problems than it solves over the long run. You should pull the pump off and grease the cylinder with silicone or other non petroleum grease once or twice a year depending on usage. Be sure the grease says it's safe to use with rubber.
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Old 01-04-2012, 09:44   #34
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I have had a jabsco electric toilet for 5 years and had no problems with it whatsoever. We also bought the manual attachment so that we can manually clear the toilet should there be a problem. As we have never had a problem I find myself worrying more about whether the manual system will work more than whether the electic system will fail I was totally against it, but the admiral demanded it. Now I am a convert. At this point if it failed I would gladly deal with it if it guaranteed another 5 years of not even thinking about it.

For us we added the small digital control attachment that you just push a button. It runs the system for 30 seconds which keeps the landlubbers from running it only until the bowl is clear and then stopping.

We also found that having a good plumbing system with a properly sized thru hull is important.
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Old 01-04-2012, 09:45   #35
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Oh, a good tip we learned from reading the "embarrassment of mangoes" book of all things, is to keep a spray bottle of olive oil and water near the head. You shake the bottle well and give a couple of sprays...keeps the macerate nice and lubed.
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Old 01-04-2012, 18:28   #36
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Re: HATE Jabsco Manual Toilet - should we Convert to Electric ?

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Hi,

What experiences has anyone had with the Jabsco Quiet-Flush electric toilet? Reliability?
Replaced my Jabsco manual for the Quiet-Flush 2 yrs ago. Never had a single problem and has never missed a beat. I have the model that is supplied from the water tank by use of the solenoid/vaccum break valve. While it does sound like a wood chipper in the head when flushed, outside the head the sound isn't any louder than my friends vacu-flush. And when up on top, can't even hear it. The guest appreciate that since they aren't advertising they just came from the head. A buddy installed the standard electric flush model (not the electric conversion) 2 yrs ago because his wife cringed at the manual, and his has been trouble free also. He choose the plain electric vs over the quiet flush due to less cost. I really like, and use, the dual purpose switch.

Manual pumps.....just the concept of having the pump handle right next to the bowl is less than comforting to me.
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Old 01-04-2012, 19:49   #37
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I too have good things to say about the electric jabsco units I've had a couple of boats where I replaced the manual with a jabsco mascerating version and have had many years trouble free. Yes they make enough sound to wake the dead I also find that the cutting action means less blockages in the hosing to the holding tank, an issue that bedevilled me with the manual one. Also if the mascerating one blocks it tends to block right at the bowl and most things can be fished out with a wire. Min the manual ones it's inevitably a strip down.. I find jabsco a reasonable brand.

Dave
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Old 01-04-2012, 20:59   #38
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Re: HATE Jabsco Manual Toilet - should we Convert to Electric ?

We have Vacuflush in two heads and Airhead in the 3rd. Love the Air head. Nothing much to go wrong. Spare part is a brick of peant moss. (we currently sail a ZDZ Great Lakes)
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Old 01-04-2012, 21:30   #39
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Re: HATE Jabsco Manual Toilet - should we Convert to Electric?

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
I prefer electric toilets for a few reasons:

1. They macerate everything and make it less likely to block.
2. Landlubbers -- guests -- hate and are intimidated by manual toilets.
3. It's easier to pump the right amount of water through with an electric. It's an endless job (on my boat, with long anti-syphon loops) to get enough water through so that waste is not standing in the pipes afterwards.

People told me - leave at least one of them manual; what if you lose electrical power? Well, if I lose electrical power I've got much bigger problems than having to use a bucket.

I had the noisy Jabsco electric conversion in my after heads which was original to the boat. The motor died eventually after 10 years of service -- I think that's a perfectly acceptable service life. The function is fine although the noise is incredible.

I replaced it with a new identical one which never worked properly. Some priming problem often prevents the evacuation pump from pumping. I am about to replace it with a Raritan; still waiting for parts. Anjou, where and how did you use the bendy-wire you're talking about? I'm wondering whether you have had the same priming problem I had.
I agree Dockhead , most of the manual problems are a result of user laziness and/or installation errors as Peggie confirms

...But here are a couple of other points to consider:

4. For large men and women… a comfortable sized toilet seat is a must if you live aboard… just as it would be if choosing a house.

5. This is a piece of gear that is cleaned more often than anything else, so quality of components will benefit you in the long run.

I switched 5 years ago from Jabsoc to Tecma (Silence Plus) and it still looks like new with never a problem
Toilets

Chose the short one as it was fitted on a step
Tecma // Products > Toilets > Silence Plus > Overview
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Old 01-04-2012, 21:50   #40
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Re: HATE Jabsco Manual Toilet - should we Convert to Electric ?

I have to agree with the original poster. The manual toilet is a nightmare with respect to reliability. If we are talking about using it only for liquid waste, it is practical...but also a very unrealistic use of it.

I had a manual toilet in my first boat and constantly ran into problems. I ended up carrying a rebuild kit onboard in my spare parts stash.

In my current boat, I pulled out the manual toilet and installed an electric one made by TMC. I purchased it on eBay for $200 and couldn't be happier. It has a Jabsco pump and is easy to replace, although I have not had to do it yet. It has been in operation for a little over a year and has been working out well for me.

A few notes:

1. I have an option to do a direct discharge instead of a holding tank discharge with maceration. As long as the Y valve has a lock, it is in compliance.

2. I used schedule 40 flexible PVC hose from an agricultural supply store instead of the sanitation hose from West Marine. It cost a third of what West Marine charges and is manufactured to the same specs.

3. I used 1.5 inch diameter hose and realized it was overspeced. It is not necessary, in my opinion. Stick with the 1 inch hose and it will be much easier to work with.

Good luck!
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Old 01-04-2012, 22:31   #41
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Re: HATE Jabsco Manual Toilet - should we Convert to Electric?

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Another vote for the Raritan phII. Jabsco's are junk threw mine out on my last boat after many problems and put in a phII, ran perfectly for 9 years then I sold the boat , Tossed the Jabsco on my new boat and put in a phII 5 years ago never had a problem.
Ditto, similar experience, now use Raritan PHC
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Old 02-04-2012, 08:51   #42
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Re: HATE Jabsco Manual Toilet - should we Convert to Electric ?

Get a Lavac. That is all.
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Old 02-04-2012, 14:56   #43
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Re: HATE Jabsco Manual Toilet - should we Convert to Electric ?

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Oh, a good tip we learned from reading the "embarrassment of mangoes" book of all things, is to keep a spray bottle of olive oil and water near the head. You shake the bottle well and give a couple of sprays...keeps the macerate nice and lubed.
We do spray with a mix of veg. oil (why olive?) vinegar (to kill critters) and water.
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Old 02-04-2012, 14:58   #44
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Re: HATE Jabsco Manual Toilet - should we Convert to Electric ?

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We have Vacuflush in two heads and Airhead in the 3rd. Love the Air head. Nothing much to go wrong. Spare part is a brick of peant moss. (we currently sail a ZDZ Great Lakes)
Seriously considered the Airhead. But at $1k each, it was pricey and we couldn't support 4 people on 1 of them, we'd still have to have another electric or manual.
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Old 02-04-2012, 18:03   #45
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Re: HATE Jabsco Manual Toilet - should we Convert to Electric ?

Here's another confidence vote in 2 Jabsco electric heads. However, we don't put ANY paper in them, and our lines are recent. Ours are fresh water flush.
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