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Old 20-12-2013, 19:37   #46
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Re: Groco SV Seacock Testing Prior to Installation

Replacing the old Groco rubber plug seacocks with modern Groco seacocks was my first major boat project - it was fun! Like you I researched different backing plate materials and settled on marine plywood because it is so easy to work with. The flange can be screwed into a pilot hole in the plywood, no worries about tapping or stressing the material/breaking a bolt or screw because the pilot hole was too small.

Boards are bad because they can split. I used okumi (sp?) plywood, numerous thin, tight laminations with water resistant glue and no voids. The shape depends more on the room you have available for the backing plate; for me, triangle wasted the least amount of wood and was easier to cut, and fit to my curved hull. A circle wastes more material, but you don't have to worry about orientation.

"And I need a good sander to remove the 3 existing layers of bottom paint in preperations for the barrier coat."

No no, I think there is a West Marine in KW, use a paint stripper, Aqua Strip is easy, fast, non-toxic, and kicks ass. Sanding/grinding is hard to control, messy, and contaminates the underlying layer.

Tips: You Will need the Groco thru-hull wrench thingy. I am THE Master of Improvisation and finally gave up and bought the almighty Groco thruhull wrench thingy.

The thruhulls are long, you will need to trim them, I cut mine to leave two or three unused threads when the thruhull was fully screwed into the seacock. A cutoff wheel on an angle grinder rocks. Wear FULL eye protection. Put the hex nut on the thruhull before cutting it, then you can straighten the threads as you screw it off. File sharp edges.

Buy extra sealant, if you don't get lots of squeeze-out from everywhere, remove the thruhull and add more. Many people recommend 5200 - that product is an adhesive, not a sealant. You don't need an adhesive, it won't make the installation any stronger or more waterproof, and is a mega PIA if you need to remove a seacock for some reason. Polysulfide is recommended for below the waterline use, and is also a water-cure product.

If you didn't know, WEST Epoxy System has numerous instruction booklets for download on their web site, and if you need more help then call them - a friendly live human answers the phone and immediately connects you to a live human tech who will help you with any problems.
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Old 20-12-2013, 19:46   #47
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Re: Groco SV Seacock Testing Prior to Installation

Some pics from my project:


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I found out that my thru-hulls were firmly corroded to their seacocks and had to cut off each seacock.


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Next, cut the remaining flange in half, HALF, mind you, not sorta half, like I did the first time.

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Pry it apart ...


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tap out the thruhull, and there you go. Took about 10 mins to remove each one.


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Be prepared that your new thru-hulls might not match your old ones, hammer, chisel, whatever.


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Backing plate ready for the seacock.


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And the result. So easy even a girl can do it!


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When mounting the seacock I only used sealant (polysulfide) around the thruhull and screws - if the thruhull leaked I wanted to be able to see the leak, not have it festering in the plywood!
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Old 20-12-2013, 20:31   #48
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Shipshape,
You put alot of effort into your post and you didn't waste your time because it really helped me alot as well as others who read this.
And you have an interesting way of writing.
Love the pics.
Thanks a billion.
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Old 21-12-2013, 12:21   #49
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I still don't know how to patch a hole?!?
I would think there's a common procedure for filling discontinued thruhull penetrations.

Do I cut a round 1-1/2" filler piece to plug the hole?
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Old 21-12-2013, 13:35   #50
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Re: Groco SV Seacock Testing Prior to Installation

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Originally Posted by endoftheroad View Post
I still don't know how to patch a hole?!?
I would think there's a common procedure for filling discontinued thruhull penetrations.

Do I cut a round 1-1/2" filler piece to plug the hole?
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/assets/...aintenance.pdf

Instructions on p. 22

If that link doesn't work, it is the Fiberglass Boat Repair and Maintenance manual at this link. WEST SYSTEM | Use Guides
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Old 21-12-2013, 13:57   #51
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ShipShape,

I forgot that manual existed, I last saw it about 5 years ago or something just like it.

Cheers
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Old 21-12-2013, 14:05   #52
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Re: Groco SV Seacock Testing Prior to Installation

I did the "they look pretty good so I'll just service them and put them back on" routine a few years ago. Less than two years later I replaced them all with new and wish I had done that the first time. Expensive but now it is done. I would follow MaineSails procedure .
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Old 22-12-2013, 05:46   #53
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5" and 6" hole saws here in key west including inside Home Depot are $40 and 60 bucks. Seems like a lot of money just to cut 8 circles in G-10. And since it's said that G-10 "eats tools" I'm not sure I could justify the costs. I've heard some use a jigsaw or bandsaw to cut the shapes but I have neither. And since this project is costing about 5 thousand I'd like to cut some costs. Yes, hauling in key west for a month is expensive as well as 3 gallons Trinidad.
Some cut triangles and even octagon shapes, I happen to have a table saw with a new blade.
How would a table saw fair at cutting octagon shapes and then later bevelling the edges with a bench grinder???
Will the product chip while cutting?
Would it be necessary to blue tape as you would for cutting plexiglass?

Or is this just a stupid idea?

endofmywits
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Old 22-12-2013, 10:38   #54
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Re: Groco SV Seacock Testing Prior to Installation

Just cut a block of plywood, sand the edges and glue it on. It's one of the simplest repairs possible on a boat. It is probably considered the standard in boatbuilding. Or you can make it fancy. It is still doing the same job of adhering a structural face using as much surface area as necessary. You can later drill out a new hole if you need too. Easy peasy.
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Old 22-12-2013, 11:07   #55
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Re: Groco SV Seacock Testing Prior to Installation

Quote:
Originally Posted by endoftheroad View Post
endofmywits
BWAHAHAHAAAAA!

I just finished another step in my own project from hell - new refrigerator box. Misery loves company - I didn't know I would have such great company!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShipShape View Post
Like you I researched different backing plate materials and settled on marine plywood because it is so easy to work with.


Quote:
Originally Posted by endoftheroad View Post
How would a table saw fair at cutting octagon shapes and then later bevelling the edges with a bench grinder???
Will the product chip while cutting?
Would it be necessary to blue tape as you would for cutting plexiglass?

endofmywits
Octagon?? Do you hate yourself?? If you picked fiberglass for the backing plates forget hole saws if you have other options - I just went thru Hole Saw Misery installing fittings on the top of my FRP holding tank - and that was only four circles of FRP I had to cut ... oh, five, my first cut into the tank I discovered there is a baffle in there. Needless to say I was baffled when I first saw(ed into) that!

What do you care about chips and aesthetics? Do you want a show boat or to go sailing? If you do manage to chip it somehow just smooth it out with thickened epoxy. Rough edges can be smoothed with a power sander, wear a respirator - fiberglass dust is barely a step down from asbestos.

Oh ... you'll need a hole saw for the thruhull. How many? Eight?? No taping necessary, fiberglass is tough stuff. If you got good stuff it won't chip when you cut it. Yes, it does dull blades quickly, carbide is recommended for FRP? You'll survive.

Dude, don't be so afraid of failure - you are doing a project that what you learn will open up a world of possibilities and if you do everything according to the book right then you won't improve your judgement of what does and doesn't work. Do ONE, if you mess up or aren't happy with the result then try again.

Did you get my e-mail yesterday?

Roy M apparently has been there and done that - save the FRP (GRP whatever it is called) for another project. Get exterior plywood and saturate the crap out of it with epoxy and fill any voids you see ... and commercial plywood is full of voids, you WILL see voids. That is why I paid for okumi (sp?)

Have a nice day!
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Old 22-12-2013, 11:32   #56
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ShipShape,
I'm not by nature an anal retentive character.
I have lived my entire life day by day with little concern for details or for planning a tomorrow.
My boat teaches me patience and an extreme attention to detail. I give myself intensely to my projects and it matters not spit whether I'm working in the bilge or on the most decorative piece of brightwork, they all get the same energy from me.
It's a discipline for my character flaws or maybe a therapy.
Sorry if you value cracks or rough edges on just a simple backing plate differently than me.
endoftheroad
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Old 22-12-2013, 12:13   #57
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Re: Groco SV Seacock Testing Prior to Installation

Quote:
Originally Posted by endoftheroad View Post
ShipShape,
I'm not by nature an anal retentive character.
I have lived my entire life day by day with little concern for details or for planning a tomorrow.
My boat teaches me patience and an extreme attention to detail. I give myself intensely to my projects and it matters not spit whether I'm working in the bilge or on the most decorative piece of brightwork, they all get the same energy from me.
It's a discipline for my character flaws or maybe a therapy.
Sorry if you value cracks or rough edges on just a simple backing plate differently than me.
endoftheroad
Quote:
Originally Posted by endoftheroad View Post
5" and 6" hole saws here in key west including inside Home Depot are $40 and 60 bucks. And since this project is costing about 5 thousand I'd like to cut some costs. endofmywits
Sweetheart, when it comes to safety I am the most AR person you will ever meet - the boat yard I am hauled at at the moment knows me well and refused to bid on my last project because I am "too picky".

You
ARE concerned with details - it appears my accepting chips in the FRP caused you to post your objections against my attitude for the world to see. (google it) Cracks in a backing plate are unacceptable, chips are not. I chose okumi (sp??) for a reason, as you can see my backing plates are lovely. I don't choose products that are below my expectations, which is one of the reasons why I chose okumi (sp??) for my seacock backing plates.

I don't understand what you are apologizing to me for, there is no need, but your concern with $40 or $60 for a project that your life and the survival of your boat depends on is ... ummm ... well ... is that more than your life worth???

You are stressed, bitch at me all you want, I will still love you in the morning. And I would say that I will continue to help you this afternoon but my lunch break is over and it is time for me to return to work my own problems.

If you object to my help/attitude there are many experienced salts here that can give you advice - pretty don't make the boat float, quality work and materials do. Go get yourself some exterior plywood and thank Roy M for his input. Or be AR like me and fork out the time and money for some okumi and do it the way I did. Or deal with the expense of a $50 hole saw and tell us the story later.

We are all in this together, thank you for caring intensively about the underwater holes in your boat.
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Old 23-12-2013, 09:17   #58
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Re: Groco SV Seacock Testing Prior to Installation

I love my Groco SV seacocks. Easy to service and maintain. Notice the butt block it fastens through. P.S.: Installed in 1978 and still going strong.
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Old 23-12-2013, 13:58   #59
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Roy,
nice valves, I have 7 of those as good if not better condition. Care to double your inventory?

I got my G-10 5/8" epoxy glass today.
I need 8 backing plates out of these two 12"x12" pieces.
They cost a whopping $173 delivered.
But.......at $21.62 per backing plate how can you complain?
This stuff is overkill. The reason I am using it is because I am tapping into the G-10 and not bolting thru the hull.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garolite


Here is a picture....
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Old 23-12-2013, 23:01   #60
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Re: Groco SV Seacock Testing Prior to Installation

I'll pay the freight if you're donating them.
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