Frigoboat Keel Cooling Refrigeration in Temperate Cold water?

[skipgundlach]

I've read this very extensive thread due to a problem I have in my system (new thread started yesterday 6-20, or, if you prefer, 20-6), and have two observations.

First is that I built my own box; it's 6" Blue extruded polystyrene (except at the hull, which is injected, ranging from 4.5 for a very small area to over 13" at the top) covered with epoxy resin and then fiberglassed, and 3.5/7.0 feet. It has a spillover fan controlled by a thermostat. I calculated my heat load expected with Richard's calculator, and used a single system as a result. My compressor is well ventilated but not with a fan, and is in the engine room (very rarely run the engine). If you want to wade through all the pix to see how we did it, it's in the very beginning of my refit (gallery link in my sig).

The cooling is handled by a D50 and whatever the largest SS clad plate, wrapped/formed to fit three sides of the freezer, dumped by a keel cooler which has no zincs and is bonded to house negative; no other thru hulls are bonded; the only zinc I have is at the end of the MaxProp. Controls are SSC and 2 Carel digital thermostats with 2°F hysteresis set at 8 and 32; there are lights and fans in each box controlled by NO/NC switches which turn off the fans and on the lights when the doors are opened.

Freezer is top open, reefer is front; both have angled entries with gaskets at top and bottom/in and out, depending on the door.

I'm in extremely deep **** if I have to replace the evap because it won't fit through the door; I'd have to remove the countertop, which would involve some disassembly of the engine room, where equipment sits over the long screws from that side holding the top to the bulkhead.

My two observations are:

My keel cooler looks pretty much like the day I bought it, other than some bang-marks from my wreck very early on. No issues about degradation, and in general, when we used to ground the boat to dive it (it doesn't move or chase you when it's sitting on sand) in the Bahamas, there was rarely any growth on it. However, that was in mostly barnacle free water. And, it WILL do an adequate job of cooling out of the water, as we've done so as we lived aboard in a couple of significant refits. We don't know if there are barnacles on it now; if they can stand constant 135°F (the temp of the fitting at the compressor), there are likely some there now.

Second, even in the very earliest of days, I don't think I EVER saw the SSC go dark; it was ALWAYS running. As efficient as we presume this box to be, and as small as it is, according to FI in this thread, it should be running not more than 25% of the time. Never was, and not a chance now...

Currently, the compressor is running at full blast, non-stop, and pulls well over 100AH a day. I'm having to run the Honda 2000 generator every other day to replenish our 880AH bank, despite our having lots of solar and a KISS to help keep it up. (We typically will charge at 200-300AH deficit.) There's very little load otherwise, as we do our recharging of computers and the like when we run the Honda. Typical non-Frigo load might be 2-3A, tops, mostly our WiFi system which we leave running for the courtesy of neighbors who can't see the distance we can (we leave our router open and invite folks to come see us).

My new thread addresses my current problems, so I won't get into it here, other than to say that I expected a bit of degradation in performance as we moved (just recently) from relatively cool water and air to the gold standard of more than 86 water and 90 days. Failure is closer to the truth.

So, NO - I've never experienced anything remotely like the performance claimed, on a twice-as-large box, with an unknown level of insulation, but the KC has amply demonstrated that it works well for us, and has no problem despite no zinc.

L8R

Skip, currently lying St. Marys GA

[Bambolera]

Originally Posted by Frigoboat Info

I really don't know what was going on with your system, Jedi.

Funny, seems to clear to me that replacing the deformed o-ring fixed the leak.

[Frigoboat Info]

Skipgundlach:
Are you saying there is another thread regarding this? If so can you direct it to me, please?
I have found some pictures of your compressor installation but none of the box interiors with evaporator installed. Do you have any available?
Is it possible to have a picture of the label on top of the K50 compressor?
When first installed, did your system perform as expected?
Can you please confirm you have a fridge box of 7 cu ft and a freezer of 3.5 cu ft.
Regarding the Smart Speed Control (SSC). This will never go dark unless it is de-powered. There will always be the "Auto" or "Manual" Led lit, plus however many green bars are showing indicating what speed the compressor is running or will run at on the next cycle. The "Auto" or "Manual" Led's will be green when the compressor is running and orange when it is idle.

Frigoboat Info

[skipgundlach]

Originally Posted by Frigoboat Info

Skipgundlach:
Are you saying there is another thread regarding this? If so can you direct it to me, please?

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post1265942

Originally Posted by Frigoboat Info

I have found some pictures of your compressor installation but none of the box interiors with evaporator installed. Do you have any available?

They're in the same area - but there was a lot going on in the refit so they're mixed in there. My bandwidth sux so I can't page through them, but the freezer has three sides (not the spillover barrier) with the plate; it very nearly covers all of it - perhaps an inch or two gap between ends and the spillover barrier and perhaps 6" vertical from the floor.

Originally Posted by Frigoboat Info

Is it possible to have a picture of the label on top of the K50 compressor?

Sorry, no.

Originally Posted by Frigoboat Info

When first installed, did your system perform as expected?

Yes, thrilled with it.

Originally Posted by Frigoboat Info

Can you please confirm you have a fridge box of 7 cu ft and a freezer of 3.5 cu ft.

Confirmed

Originally Posted by Frigoboat Info

Regarding the Smart Speed Control (SSC). This will never go dark unless it is de-powered. There will always be the "Auto" or "Manual" Led lit, plus however many green bars are showing indicating what speed the compressor is running or will run at on the next cycle. The "Auto" or "Manual" Led's will be green when the compressor is running and orange when it is idle.

Frigoboat Info

Thanks.

L8R

Skip

[Frigoboat Info]

Skip: I'm going to jump over to the other thread, as this one is long enough already!

[vientoman]

forgive my jumping into this thread from a slight angle but I have a question that may or may not have a correct answer:

I am preparing a new F-44SC catamaran for launch next spring and just brought my new frigoboat system on line. ( I've used a fountian pump with a terry cloth rag wrapped around the keel cooler to dissipate heat. )

Question: since I don't plan on launching until next spring, what is the best way to safeguard the system? should I just turn it off and not worry about it until launch time or should I turn it on every month or so intervals just to keep things loosened up??????

[Frigoboat Info]

It's good to hear you have rigged up a temporary water cooling solution. While these systems may indeed work in air, you risk all sorts of damage to components if you do that. For those that need a more permanent solution we have the pre-charged Air Add-On air cooled condenser that connects into the system ahead of the Keel Cooler, and the fan is turned on when the Keel Cooler is not immersed in water. This is particularly relevant to long-range cruisers, and also to multi-hulls, where beaching is an attractive benefit. New systems that require the air plus Keel Cooled option would comprise an air cooled condensing unit with a Keel Cooler.
Unlike other mechanical items on a boat, there's no need to operate a hermetically sealed compressor refrigeration system occasionally to keep them happy. Inside the refrigeration system is the cleanest place on your boat; no oxygen, no moisture, no corrosive materials, etc., and so nothing to "keep loose". Enjoy!

[hpeer]

Calling Frigoboat Info....

We have a BD-35 installed by previous owner about 7 years ago. We bought the boat about 4 years ago.

This appears to be a weird installation as it had a hook up for a keel cooler that was never installed. It has obviously run from new as an air unit.

From when we bought the boat it didn't work right. The Smart Speed Controller appeared to work as advertised, but it had a small leak I could not find. Eventually I hired a tech who located the leak in the tubing as it passed from the outside to inside the reefer. It was leaking into the insulation. I ordered a new plate and he replaced it.

It now seems to cool well, but the controller now seems to run continiously. Manual mode button does nothing.

Any ideas about what to do? Replace controller?

No good techs nearby, gotta pay out a couple of hours travel time just to get one here.

[Frigoboat Info]

I don't understand what you mean by "a hook-up for a Keel Cooler". There is no special hook-up, unless some-one has jury-rigged something. If you want to add a Keel Cooler to a Frigoboat air cooled system, you simply separate the appropriate coupling and install the Keel Cooler in series.
What are you referring to when you say that the system is running continuously? The Smart Speed Control (SSC) will always show some green bars (compressor speed) either indicating at what speed the compressor is running at, or what speed it will run at on the next cycle. The "Auto" light will be green when the compressor is running and orange when it is idle, and that is your best indication. Keep in mind that we want to see long run times of the compressor at the slowest speed possible, as this increases efficiency. You should also check to make sure the system is not overcharged, as this is a very common occurrance after a system has been re-charged in the field. See instructions here: http://coastalcoolaids.com/images/Re...delines_v2.pdf

The Auto/Manual button on the SSC does not respond instantly and requires pressing until you see the LED's switch to the opposite mode.

Hope this helps!

Frigoboat Info

[hpeer]

Re: keel cooler
It has the larger tube over the top, along with a relay box.
Looking at your web site again it looks like the WATER COOLED version, not keel cooled.
But none of that was hooked up, no water pipes to no water. I can only guess that they wanted this as a future option as we have 185 fresh water????
It is clearly set up as a normal air unit.

Yeah, some one got SPECIAL on this install. No harm, it should work as it is.

Re: running forever.
ALL green bars are always lite, the indicator light never goes orange.


Re: manual button
Ok, I'll try that next time on the boat (maybe about 10 days)
But I remember it switching when we first got the boat, just doesn't now. But I'll try.

Thanks for the response.

[Frigoboat Info]

So someone has taken a Frigoboat air cooled unit and added a water cooled condensing coil after the air cooled condenser, but that shouldn't cause too many problems. I'd seriously advise to check the refrigerant charge as per the info on the web page I directed you to.

Will you be at the Annapolis show?

[hpeer]

Not sure about Annapolis, I was thinking of skipping.

But...if it gives a chance to talk I could make the sacrifice!