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Old 07-09-2011, 21:25   #16
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Re: Freshwater Flush Plumbing

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Originally Posted by peghall View Post
Neither...there is no safe way to connect ANY manual toilet to the fresh water plumbing, with or without any vacuum breaker or other bits. However, there IS an alternative that works on most boats...one that most people like:

Reroute the head intake line to tee it into the head sink drain line just ahead of the seacock. This will provide a safe source of clean fresh water to rinse the sea water out of the system before it sits and stagnates...just close the thru-hull, fill the sink with clean water (NOT gray water!)...flush the toilet. Because the seacock is closed, the toilet will pull the water out of the sink, rinsing out the WHOLE system--intake line, pump, channel in the rim of the bowl AND the head discharge line. You CAN keep the seacock closed (except when using the sink) and use this method to flush with fresh water all the time, but most people don't find it necessary. When flushing with sea water, it may be necessary to put a plug in the sink to allow the pump to prime instead of pulling air in air.
This is not only a great and sanitary idea, it's also the method I use to winterize my engine...route a bypass from the standpipe to the galley sink, fill with antifreeze and let 'er rip.

I am a big believer, having had to rebuild a salt water head, in the remediation of fresh water flushes.
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Old 09-09-2011, 15:35   #17
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Re: Freshwater-Flush Plumbing

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Originally Posted by sailorchic34 View Post
Oh, I need to say that I've 30+ years experience as a consulting professional engineer designing plumbing /process systems for just about everything... from large hotel-casinos, to biotech, to boats.

I only look like a blonde bimbo.
I needed a good laugh today and I got it thanks Sailorchic you are too funny. It was pretty obvious that you knew what you were talking about from your first post and other comments that you have made on other posts. OTOH I don't know if I believe that you are an engineer because you have a great sense of humor.
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Old 09-09-2011, 15:45   #18
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Re: Freshwater-Flush Plumbing

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Originally Posted by James S View Post
I have a dedicated "flush water tank" not connected to my fresh water supply, that I manually fill by hose with fresh water from my tanks or the dock.

I just keep a bucket of fresh water in the head and flush it manually. NO odor problems -- NONE. And I live aboard. It's not like the head doesn't get used.
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Old 10-09-2011, 06:12   #19
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Re: Freshwater-Flush Plumbing

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Originally Posted by Vasco View Post
I just use the shower head attachment at the sink and squirt fresh water into the head. Of course the seawater intake is closed.
I also.
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Old 20-02-2014, 11:37   #20
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Re: Freshwater-Flush Plumbing

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Originally Posted by sailorchic34 View Post
Actually the atmospheric vacuum breaker (AVB) would be down stream of a solenoid valve of some sort or even a manual valve on the pressure water system. You would use the solenoid valve to fill the bowl, bypassing the manual pump entirely.

The hose down stream of the atmospheric vacuum breaker to the head bowl is not pressurized, it's at atmospheric pressure, and a pretty much a gravity drain to the bowl. It would connect after the manual head pump, in the hose between the pump and bowl.

No way would the head pump survive 40 psig pressure, so water wound be connected after the pump and would be a gravity drain / no pressure after the AVB. You could use a tee in the line between the pump and bowl connection, so one could use a seawater flush if desired.

Basically you would use the fresh water as a bowl fill and then dry flush to clear the bowl as normally done

There might be additional pump o-ring wear, but then your using it to dry flush 1/2 the time anyway..

Actually as the bottom side of the pump is wet from er.. "stuff", the o-ring and sides of the pump body would be wet, so wear would not be that bad. Mainly a little extra wear to the o-ring around the pump shaft I think.

Just to be clear the AVB is an ASSE approved backflow preventer air gap device designed to separate potable from non-potable sources and complies with all building codes. You do need a valve upstream of the AVB to control the water flow

BTW I use my manual head with seawater only. I worked out the safe way for a fellow down the dock. Agree 1000% that you never ever connect potable water to the sea water inlet of the head pump. Totally bad!

Oh, I need to say that I've 30+ years experience as a consulting professional engineer designing plumbing /process systems for just about everything... from large hotel-casinos, to biotech, to boats.

I only look like a blonde bimbo.
Would you say the same about an automatic toilet? We have just had a Dometic installed plumbed to our fresh water and are about to get a t valve so it can be used as a saltwater flush as well
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Old 23-02-2014, 12:31   #21
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Re: Freshwater-Flush Plumbing

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Would you say the same about an automatic toilet? We have just had a Dometic installed plumbed to our fresh water and are about to get a t valve so it can be used as a saltwater flush as well
For the Domestic, if you add a T valve for salt water, Put a watts 9D backflow preventer or equal (Amazon has them) on the fresh water side of the valve. You would also need to install a salt water pump to deliver salt water to the toilet. You could use a deck wash pump if you have one.

The Watts 9d is a pressure rated Backflow preventer with an intermediate vent. Water might drip a time or two from the vent under normal operation, but not too much or often. If water flows from the vent, one check valve is fowled and the unit needs to be cleaned/replaced. Both checks are spring loaded closed and need 20-25 psi to open.

Myself I would always use some sort of Vacuum breaker/ backflow preventer on any marine/RV toilet plumbed with fresh water. These are built into the land side toilets BTW, every last one of them in north america anyway.
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Old 23-09-2014, 19:40   #22
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Re: Freshwater Flush Plumbing

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Originally Posted by sailorchic34 View Post
Only safe way is to put a atmospheric vacuum breaker in the fresh water line to the head. Using a N.C. solenoid with a push button and a vacuum breaker mounted 12-18" above the rim hooked up to your fresh water system. I would plum it in with a tee between the pump and bowl connection.



Never ever connect a fresh water line directly to a marine head without some form of backflow prevention. A check valve in the line is not going to do it.

I'm very interested in this. Could you please explain how in works in more detail? My setup would be with electric head.

The tie-in to fresh water is upstream from house pump?
The solenoid is located above, along with the AVB?
The water flows by gravity or pump pressure where?
The air gap is created how?

Just trying to understand if you can humor my ignorance.


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Old 23-09-2014, 21:57   #23
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Re: Freshwater-Flush Plumbing

If you don't get any response here, you might try PMing SailorChic or Peg Hall.

Ann
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Old 15-12-2014, 21:57   #24
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Re: Freshwater-Flush Plumbing

So I read this entire thread as it related to what I was thinking about doing..... Then I used that amazing thing called google and found that raritan manufactures a manual fresh water flush toilet, does anyone have any experience with these? They seem fairly new and I'd like to here feedback from those who have ACTUALLY hands on this product. Not trying to be rude but a lot of cruisers tend to inject opinion with out experience or by knowledge only learned from reading ( which is often someone else stating their opinion and then all of a sudden it becomes fact.... Wierd) any way if anyone has one of these I would be very interested in hearing your experiences. Thanks.


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Old 15-12-2014, 22:08   #25
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Re: Freshwater-Flush Plumbing

Holdfast, I was in the Raritan Fort Lauderdale warehouse today. They had one on display. It looked well made. I've had them on order for my store for several weeks now but haven't been able to get them. I asked the manager there why I hadn't received them yet. He said they have stopped shipping them until they can replace one of the springs with a stiffer one. I think it will be a good toilet when they resume shipping. I like that it uses a diaphragm pump instead of a piston.
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Old 15-12-2014, 22:17   #26
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Re: Freshwater-Flush Plumbing

Thank you sir, I appreciate the info. I'm probably going to go this route, good to know to give them some time to work the kinks out.


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Old 16-12-2014, 11:37   #27
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Re: Freshwater-Flush Plumbing

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Originally Posted by James S View Post
I have a dedicated "flush water tank" not connected to my fresh water supply, that I manually fill by hose with fresh water from my tanks or the dock.
For anyone with room for an extra tank, this is a great idea. To expand on this idea, a valve could be installed to allow flushing with either water from the flush tank or with sea water. You really only need the fresh water if the head won't be used for a day or more.
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Old 17-12-2014, 00:28   #28
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Re: Freshwater-Flush Plumbing

So, fresh water instead of salt
You must have an odor issue?



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Old 17-12-2014, 00:31   #29
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Freshwater-Flush Plumbing

Or build up of salt ?
Can't you just dump a gallon or so of fresh to clear the line , then before you lay it up just flush well with fresh?
Are you out of projects to do?


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Old 17-12-2014, 07:52   #30
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Re: Freshwater-Flush Plumbing

Boatyarddog, Toilet odors, caused by salt water flushing, usually come from flora and fauna that comes in with the water and is trapped in the rim of the toilet bowl. They die there and rot. Dumping a bucket of fresh water into the bowl won't help with this problem. You need to send the fresh water into the toilet through the intake side of the toilet. A strainer in the salt water intake line can greatly reduce this problem as well.
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