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Old 12-07-2015, 06:55   #121
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
Now the Katyn (sorry about spelling$ has brought Spectura, where does that leave Spectura owners far as pump warranty?


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Old 12-07-2015, 07:01   #122
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

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Now the Katyn (sorry about spelling$ has brought Spectura, where does that leave Spectura owners far as pump warranty?
Excellent question. When Parker bought Village Marine, they voided all previous warranties. I was stuck with a HP pump that VM broke while servicing (forgot to install a nut on the piston crank!). The first time I fired it up, the pump self-destructed. No problem, I thought - I have an embossed, multi color "Lifetime Warranty" certificate. Not to mention that VM had just sent me back the serviced pump a week earlier.

In that one week, Parker bought VM. When I sent the pump back for warranty with proof of VM's service mistake just a week earlier, Parker told me to pound dirt - they were canceling all existing VM lifetime warranties and transferring them to the new 90 day warranties. My only option was to buy a new $1,200 pump. As for the fact that my (mis)service work was 1 week old, they told me that Parker did not do that work - VM did, and that VM company was no longer in business.

I guess you can imagine who was excluded from my choices when it came time to buy another watermaker.

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Old 12-07-2015, 07:03   #123
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

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you don't necessarily need the very large solar arrays that can be only be fitted to cats.
You did catch Rich Boren's post about his 1200W solar array?

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Old 12-07-2015, 07:04   #124
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

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Originally Posted by WindLove View Post
In the end, isn't a watermaker just trading fuel for water? Most people I know run them off of the power from their generators or from the engine. Maybe they would be using the engine anyway for propulsion, but often they wouldn't be. When you run the engine at anchor so you can stay longer, then you are trading fuel for water.

I have a hard time believing a solar system could really provide enough power to push all that water under high pressure and still maintain the battery system.
When run through a 7kw or 10kw generator, it's amazing how much energy a gallon of diesel will produce. Remember the generator wants to run at full capacity, not just enough to charge batteries. So, while it runs for one hour in the morning it can produce all electrical power to run the electric teapot, make 30 gallons of water, heat 14 gallons of water, fry four eggs, take care of the refrigeration and recharge the batteries all on about 1/2 gallon of diesel, then.... Do it all again in the evening while we cook dinner. Not bad for between $5-$10 per day.

The generator doesn't produce power for just one task at a time. It satisfies all tasks simultaneously using the same gallon of diesel.
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Old 12-07-2015, 07:09   #125
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

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When run through a 7kw or 10kw generator, it's amazing how much energy a gallon of diesel will produce. Remember the generator wants to run at full capacity, not just enough to charge batteries. So, while it runs for one hour in the morning it can produce all electrical power to run the electric teapot, make 30 gallons of water, heat 14 gallons of water, fry four eggs, take care of the refrigeration and recharge the batteries all on about 1/2 gallon of diesel, then.... Do it all again in the evening while we cook dinner. Not bad for between $5-$10 per day.

The generator doesn't produce power for just one task at a time. It satisfies all tasks simultaneously using the same gallon of diesel.
Only 4 eggs?!

you must have an Oyster..........!



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Old 12-07-2015, 07:12   #126
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

Even if you just boil it down to running a watermaker, the Honda 2000 generator will power a 30gph with not much left for anything else. It will run for 8hrs on a gallon of gas, so that is ~250gal water per gal of gasoline - which works out to ~$0.02 in fuel costs per gallon of water.

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Old 12-07-2015, 07:24   #127
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

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Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
Oh crap...I must be living in a cave. First time I've heard this. Hopefully they won't fix what isn't broken or change the pressure vessel to a non-standard one.


They won't. The thing is Katadyn bought Spectra because they saw the benefits to helping Katadyns watermaker department to become better, not the other way around. When I first heard the news, I had an "Oh Crap" moment myself. But Katadyns people have been fantastic. They, in my opinion, are making all the right moves to take the Katadyn/Spectra line to the next level which was their intention when buying Spectra. This was what the owner and people at Spectra insisted on. Believe me, every major watermaker company you know has made multiple offers to buy Spectra over the years and they have all been turned down. It's kind of been the Holy Grail of watermaker companies to buy. The decision to sell Spectra to Katadyn was not solely based on the check. This was done as all business should be done with serious future growth in mind. I'm certainly not privy to all things corporate but I'm pretty close. Unlike the butchering that went on when another huge entity un-named bought three major watermaker companies, every employee stays, all warranties stay. They have, besides me of course, what I consider the best people in the watermaker industry running the ship and not a bean counter among them. Look for changes to be sure, but they will be in growth and always service, never a change in how owners of Spectra will be treated.

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Old 12-07-2015, 07:27   #128
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

How about the owners of Katadyne....they're not going to do something goofy like discontinue the silly little membrane I need are they?


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Old 12-07-2015, 07:46   #129
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WindLove View Post
In the end, isn't a watermaker just trading fuel for water? Most people I know run them off of the power from their generators or from the engine. Maybe they would be using the engine anyway for propulsion, but often they wouldn't be. When you run the engine at anchor so you can stay longer, then you are trading fuel for water.

I have a hard time believing a solar system could really provide enough power to push all that water under high pressure and still maintain the battery system.
Uhhhh... Ohm's law darlin....quite feasible.
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Old 12-07-2015, 07:46   #130
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

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Unlike the butchering that went on when another huge entity un-named bought three major watermaker companies
Too late - I already named them.

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Old 12-07-2015, 08:06   #131
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WindLove View Post
In the end, isn't a watermaker just trading fuel for water? Most people I know run them off of the power from their generators or from the engine. Maybe they would be using the engine anyway for propulsion, but often they wouldn't be. When you run the engine at anchor so you can stay longer, then you are trading fuel for water.

I have a hard time believing a solar system could really provide enough power to push all that water under high pressure and still maintain the battery system.

Yes it's quite feasible and our philosophy for long term cruising. It's definitely more feasible at anchor than on passage where the navigation electronics and auto pilot start to take their toll. We make 70l of water/day, using 24Ah. Our fridges consume much more, around 120Ah. We also use an electric kettle 10 times a day and occasionally heat the 1500W water heater from solar/inverter as well. We don't have a generator and don't run the engines to charge batteries. That said, we have 1150W of solar and 840Ah battery bank, but it was also not a problem on our last boat with 540W solar and 600Ah bank. It's also possible with quite a bit less solar and battery storage capacity.
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Old 12-07-2015, 08:24   #132
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WindLove View Post
In the end, isn't a watermaker just trading fuel for water? Most people I know run them off of the power from their generators or from the engine. Maybe they would be using the engine anyway for propulsion, but often they wouldn't be. When you run the engine at anchor so you can stay longer, then you are trading fuel for water.

I have a hard time believing a solar system could really provide enough power to push all that water under high pressure and still maintain the battery system.

In most watermakers, yes you can think of trading fuel for water because of the high energy costs of creating the pressure within an reverse osmosis system can be energy intensive. But this mentality is changing quickly. Spectras are different in the way they use the energy to create the pressures needed. I usually use amp usage as an easy way to understand energy use but Watts is really the right way, just sometimes a bit more confusing, but important when understanding solar. A simple Spectra 150 will use about 100-130 Watts depending upon installation or about 17Watts to make a gallon of water. This is easily attainable on practically any boat with solar. This means if you have a 200Watt plus solar array on board then it is very practical to assume that water production and battery charging for other electrical needs are attainable. What I'm seeing on the smaller cruising sail boats I work on is probably a guesstimated average of between 200-400Watts of solar installed. But times are changing as solar panels are coming down in price and Watt production is increasing to the realestate used on a boat. It is not at all uncommon now to see 500-1000+Watt arrays, especially on Cats. With the new developments in solar charging and certainly in batteries more and more cruising sailboats are going totally solar and perhaps wind with 12/24Volt systems. Generators are starting to fall out of favor for the new 45 foot and less cruising boats and will trickle down to the older boat market as refits are done. The old school of thought that a generator solves your electrical issues is changing as well. Generators are not bought without a lot of thought going into it. Even on large mega yachts these things are figured down to the single Watt needed and we are selling and installing amazingly energy efficient watermakers on them. The Marine industry in general is always looking to make equipment on all sized boats smaller and more energy efficient because of the realized long term and performance benefits. I'm kind of drifting here a bit (as I usually do) but even 12/24 volt systems can only go so far in hourly production. But we have and are developing 120/240Volt systems that can make far more water than an old style plunger pump type system with a lot less watts. For example we have a system that can make 125 gallons an hour that can run off a Honda EU2000 generator. No one else in the industry can do that with any old school system. Now, these units are not practical for the smaller cruising sail boat but the technology is coming soon that will be passed down to smaller systems.

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Old 12-07-2015, 08:26   #133
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

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How about the owners of Katadyne....they're not going to do something goofy like discontinue the silly little membrane I need are they?


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Old 12-07-2015, 08:29   #134
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

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Too late - I already named them.

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Old 12-07-2015, 09:29   #135
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

Tellie or any one else for that matter, any thoughts on Schenker

The specs on the Schenker smart 30 (30l/hr @ 9amps) seem to suggest a fairly similar performance to The Ventura 200T

Schenker watermakers - Smart 30 digital
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