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Old 10-07-2015, 10:25   #31
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Not sure what you mean - I didn't say that water makers can't run off solar. I was saying that many DC systems that use 25-40 amps can't be run by solar while making enough water and fully charging the batteries while handling normal day time power loads. Unless one's water needs are modest, or one uses little daily power, or one has a honking big solar array.

I don't consider the 1 gal/hr systems as worth the time, money or trouble. That statement is opinion and arguable.

If one is looking for a commercial system that makes a reasonable amount of water and can be powered off a typical 300-400W solar array which can also keep up with daily power use and charge the batteries, for under $5,000 ($4,750 doesn't count) - then no, I don't think these exist.

Mark
Hi Mark - OK, understand the point you are trying to get across now that it is explained.
I read "Any commercial system <<5K that can be run on reasonable solar alone will not be worth your money. The answer to your question is essentially no."

We have a reasonable solar panel array as we rely on them to fund our power demands, supplemented by D400 wind generators and we have been very comfortable with this arrangement. We presently have 3x 345 watt Kyocera's on our goal post and 2x 110 watt BP panels on our hard top. We have never wanted for power, but that was our intention when electing for this. We have now sold our boat (still aboard tho') and am looking at our next boat. We shall again equip her with similar solar power and wind gen arrangement to ensure power independence. I agree with your opinion that small water makers are not worth buying.
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Old 10-07-2015, 10:34   #32
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

As Mark stated, energy consumption should be near the top of the list for most WM selection, or the way you intend to use the WM, such as only when motoring or from solar panels,
I can't imagine a high power consumption katadyn type being useful for many cruisers simply because the higher power usage per litre makes it difficult to produce larger volumes without running a generator.
We have an aqua base 65l/hr unit that consumes 24A. With 1150W of solar and 840Ah batteries it's more than enough for our particular requirements without needing alternate power sources, but then we use water frivolously, wash the decks, take long showers and share it with other cruisers so we could definitely cut back on consumption if need be. We probably average running it every 4 days for 4 hrs, so around 455l of water per week. It's been installed for 14 months so cost per litre is about 20 cents. This time next year cost per litre will be 10c. Of course we could do it cheaper by filling up more often at marinas, but for us not having to visit marinas or fill jerry cans from taps, as well as being able to trust drinking the water, far outweighs the costs and affords us the luxury of not having to leave an anchorage for weeks at a time, while still enjoying ample fresh water. Another benifit is that we can run the tanks low when we are making longer passages, saving weight and increasing sailing performance
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Old 10-07-2015, 10:38   #33
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

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Bulawayo, just so you don't have the wrong impression, we have a 30gal/hr water maker that is in regular use.

Mark
No issues, Mark. I'm assuming that yours runs from a generator or is engine driven? We once had an Aqua Fresh water maker, 120 litres per hour, that was engine driven but it was not a good experience for us. Persistent pulley alignment issues and the problem of driving up the hours on one motor etc......not the water maker itself but caused by the water maker.
We opt for 12volt due to the simplicity (for us) of powering it and usually run ours every other day. We also supply other boats with fresh water. Additionally, being able to wash down our decks, sails, cockpit as we wish is another bonus. We are, however, considering which water maker to purchase next.
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Old 10-07-2015, 10:43   #34
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

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Water makers never make financial sense, but that is the wrong way to measure their worth anyhow. Lots of things on a boat do not make financial sense. For all of these things, it is a personal matter with no right or wrong as to have/have not.
Good point because nothing about boats make financial sense.
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Old 10-07-2015, 10:44   #35
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

Pickling is for longer term storage. Back flushing with fresh water should be done approximately every 5 days if the water maker is not being used. The water maker takes in saltwater into the lines and filters and membrane, if that is allowed to sit for an extended period, the anaerobic activity will start to degrade the filters and membrane.

Back flushing is also normally performed at the end of every cycle to store the unit with fresh water.

I'm currently running my Spectra Newport 400 with an output of about 16 gallons per hour and will make about 75 gallons of water today. We did a load of laundry earlier (wash only, line dry) and the ice maker is also running, we go through about 3-4 lbs per day. We were down about 130 ah on the bank this am and we should be fully charged in the next hour. We have 1150 watts of solar. We never run the genny other than for starting and maintenance.

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Old 10-07-2015, 10:47   #36
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

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Good point because nothing about boats make financial sense.
Well that is one point of view and probably true for many people....however, it works for us and many of our friends.
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Old 10-07-2015, 13:47   #37
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

Lots of wrong watermaker information on this thread. Watermakers make perfect sense, otherwise why would we have two Spectra 380s onboard making nealy 100 gallons per day? Showers, washing the deck if we feel like it, never worry about the quality of dock water, never pay for marinas or water. We've never ever needed to tote water and don't intend to ever do it.

$12 per gallon is total baloney. We spend 5 months per year at anchor because we're completely self contained... Any idea what it would cost to stay in a marina here in the Med? As high as 200-300 euros per night, sometimes as low as 80 per night. We pay nothing... Mostly due to the watermakers, which couldn't be easier to use. 1-2 hours in the morning and 1-2 hours in the evening, never needing a flush because we use them every day.

Total 2014 expense for mainas during five months in the Med was zero Euros thaks to the watermaker.
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Old 10-07-2015, 14:15   #38
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

The Spectra Ventura 150 is a 150 gpd /6.3 gph and has a list price of 6150. The Ventura 200 which is 200gpd 8.3 gph is 6650. Both utilize a 20" membrane and carry a lifetime warranty on the clark pump to the original owner and have easy flip 2 levers to fresh water flush use . You can jump up to a capehorn extreme for 7460. It does 330 gpd or listed 14gph. Mine is running as I type this and is almost at 20gph. Most listed specs are conservative and the water temp and salinity content can effect the output. These are all 12v or optional 24volt units and can be run either from your batteries, solar, wind, or engine alternators. The DC powered units are very versatile and energy efficient. Some of the 110 units out there still reqore a 12v boost or feed pump so in addition to needing 110ac power you will burn 7+ amps / hour on the DC side as well.
Where are you located and I can put you in touch with a dealer?
One of the beautiful things about a water maker is when you have one, you will use it and enjoy it! We just left dry tortugas and burned thru 170gallons to reduce our weight, just started making water again when we hit key west in a light cat 1000+ lbs of water makes a big difference in fuel consumption and speed and comfort as well as the independence of not having to go to a marina or jug water. , hard to put a price on that



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Old 10-07-2015, 14:25   #39
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

I don't know how the one person pulled the $12 per gallon figure out of his butt. If that were the case... Since we produce and use 100 gallons per day, with that ridiculous figure... it should be costing us $1,200 per day for water or $8,400 per week!

I assure you, we're not paying $8,400 per week for fresh water.

We burn one gallon of diesel to charge the batteries and produce enough electricity to cook, make the 100 gallons water, heat the water and satisfy all our electrical needs for one day including refrigeration. All that from 1 gallon of diesel.
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Old 10-07-2015, 14:33   #40
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Lots of wrong watermaker information on this thread. Watermakers make perfect sense, otherwise why would we have two Spectra 380s onboard making nealy 100 gallons per day? Showers, washing the deck if we feel like it, never worry about the quality of dock water, never pay for marinas or water. We've never ever needed to tote water and don't intend to ever do it.

$12 per gallon is total baloney. We spend 5 months per year at anchor because we're completely self contained... Any idea what it would cost to stay in a marina here in the Med? As high as 200-300 euros per night, sometimes as low as 80 per night. We pay nothing... Mostly due to the watermakers, which couldn't be easier to use. 1-2 hours in the morning and 1-2 hours in the evening, never needing a flush because we use them every day.

Total 2014 expense for mainas during five months in the Med was zero Euros thaks to the watermaker.
Hi Kenomac..... that makes perfectly good sense to me.
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Old 10-07-2015, 16:11   #41
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

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Mark, how do come to that conclusion? We run our water maker from solar and have done so for many years.
Same here.
Spectra 180 with factory update makes 8+ gph on 8 amps in cold PNW salt water.
320 watts, fridge etc etc.
Batteries always full.
LiFePo4 of course.
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Old 10-07-2015, 16:46   #42
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

Thanks to you all! We plan to sail to the South Pacific and our solar array (planned) will be 900 watts, unless we can get more on the dinghy davit mount.

Of course we will do the norm and collect rain water when it is plentiful and filter it as well. I appreciate everyone's input!
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Old 10-07-2015, 17:15   #43
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

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If you are wanting manual operation then you are looking at the katadyne pur survivor 35 they are available on eBay new old stock for under $300 USD
Here is one listing but not the only one
1 Katadyne PUR 35 Reverse Osmosis Desalinator Emergency Water Maker | eBay
As an aside on these Katadyne Pur Survivor 35's available cheaply on on eBay and other sites: The reason they are so cheap is that they are mostly (or all) old military surplus units which will need new seals, o-rings and filters to be usable again. That will cost you an additional $400+ in parts.

- Rusty
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Old 10-07-2015, 17:28   #44
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

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Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos View Post
The Spectra Ventura 150 is a 150 gpd /6.3 gph and has a list price of 6150. The Ventura 200 which is 200gpd 8.3 gph is 6650. Both utilize a 20" membrane and carry a lifetime warranty on the clark pump to the original owner and have easy flip 2 levers to fresh water flush use . You can jump up to a capehorn extreme for 7460. It does 330 gpd or listed 14gph. Mine is running as I type this and is almost at 20gph. Most listed specs are conservative and the water temp and salinity content can effect the output. These are all 12v or optional 24volt units and can be run either from your batteries, solar, wind, or engine alternators. The DC powered units are very versatile and energy efficient. Some of the 110 units out there still reqore a 12v boost or feed pump so in addition to needing 110ac power you will burn 7+ amps / hour on the DC side as well.
Where are you located and I can put you in touch with a dealer?
One of the beautiful things about a water maker is when you have one, you will use it and enjoy it! We just left dry tortugas and burned thru 170gallons to reduce our weight, just started making water again when we hit key west in a light cat 1000+ lbs of water makes a big difference in fuel consumption and speed and comfort as well as the independence of not having to go to a marina or jug water. , hard to put a price on that



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Thanks for that info
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Old 10-07-2015, 18:23   #45
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Re: Fresh water makers best price and performance?

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Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos View Post
Some of the 110 units out there still reqore a 12v boost or feed pump so in addition to needing 110ac power you will burn 7+ amps / hour on the DC side as well.
Where are you located and I can put you in touch with a dealer?
p

All water makers that are installed above the water line require a boost pump regardless of how they are powered. The HP pump should not work at a large head. In the case of an AC water maker, the boost pump should be AC powered - which will typical add 1A to the power requirement.

I think everyone keeps forgetting that the OP's requirements were for a <$5000 unit that can be run off solar. Spectra costs more than this.

Mark
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